Gunto production photos

[TimJ]

Are there a lot of photos anywhere of Gunto, Kai-Gunto etc being made? I have tried searching but haven't found many photos or any film. I'd be interested to see the difference between a handmade vs a machine made sword. Not traditional handmade but something with a real hamon as apposed to a numbered sword.

[John C]

Tim:

If you click on the gallery tab you'll see some in there. Polishing, quenching, etc.

 

John C. 

[TimJ]

@John C Yeah, I usually only see the same 3 or 4 photos and they are low quality. The US has millions of WW2 pics. Not sure why the Japanese don't have high quality photos as well.

[Grey Doffin]

Who won the war?

Grey

[David Flynn]

Who came second?

[John C]

2 hours ago, TimJ said:

Not sure why the Japanese don't have high quality photos as well.

Part of it could be secrecy. These were war plants and it's possible pictures were not allowed. There may be tons of pictures in Japanese war museums that are not available on line. But I agree that it would be nice to see the production from start to finish.

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

14 hours ago, TimJ said:

see the difference between a handmade vs a machine made sword. Not traditional handmade but something with a real hamon as apposed to a numbered sword.

I don't think you're going to find photographic depiction of this difference, as the only difference is the steel type used and oil quench vs water quench.  You won't be able to see that in a photo.

 

I think these photos came from Ohmura's site, but a quick search there failed to find them.  They come from the SMR factory production, and I'm pretty sure they were posted on NMB already, but again, not finding them:

 

 

[TimJ]

That's pretty cool @Bruce Pennington So we're the unsigned, numbered Gunto not quenched? Why don't they have a hamon? What were acid etched hamon? I assume they were just for looks. 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, TimJ said:

unsigned, numbered Gunto not quenched

Not sure what type of blade you mean, here.  Do you mean Type 95, NCO blades?  If so, they were "hardened", but I don't know exactly how.  No attempt to make an artsy hamon on them.

 

The dress/parade Type 8/19 are the only blades (dirks, too) with what we have been calling "acid etched" hamon.  I don't know what process they used in Japan back then.  If someone does, please feel free to chime in.

[vajo]

Its from here Bruce?

満鉄刀の鋼材と製造法、刀身性能 (ohmura-study.net)

 

The pictures are not about overall showa-to gunto production. He refers to the mantetsu sword products.

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, vajo said:

Its from here Bruce?

満鉄刀の鋼材と製造法、刀身性能 (ohmura-study.net)

 

The pictures are not about overall showa-to gunto production. He refers to the mantetsu sword products.

That's the page Chris, thanks!

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Not sure if you have this, so here is a rough translation of that page.

 

John C.

Mantetsu manufacturing.docx

[Bruce Pennington]

In his discussion he goes through his process, I think, for making his first sword.  I'm confused at his mention of both water and oil quenching:

"I decided to use a grinder to rough it, put a rough furnace on it (a misprint on the grinder), and heat the five bottles at the same time.  The furnace temperature was 
kept at 8 ○ ~ 83 degrees Celsius and the quenching water temperature was 25 degrees Celsius, and the burning blade clay was found in the mountains behind the Dalian Shrine. 
Since the soil could not be dried naturally in time, I had no choice but to use rubble*2.　　　　*2  The blade tempering, which gave rise to the misunderstanding that gas was used for quenching, 
was put in hot oil at 200 degrees Celsius for about 30 minutes, then cooled in the air, and processed by each division of labor, such as distortion, warping, second finishing, and sharpening."

 

Anybody understand what he was saying?

[John C]

He might be talking about thermal cycling. After quenching, the blade is too hard. It is then re-heated and allowed to cool slowly to bring back some of the flexibility. This is usually done in an oven or furnace but perhaps he used oil instead.

 

John C.