A suggestion: 1st time sword owners and polish

[Grey Doffin]

Hi gang,

Not wanting to hijack another thread, I'm opening this to suggest that we all take a break from encouraging rank beginners at Nihonto to have their swords polished. These are well meaning new collectors who know almost nothing about their swords (nothing terrible about that; we were all there once) yet time after time they are told they need to spend $2,000 to $4,000 for a restoration they again know almost nothing about. Polish is serious business with many variables that need to be taken into account before a decision is made. Even with 40 years of learning under my belt, I go slow with having something polished. There is no way a beginner should rush into this.

Polish isn't preservation; a light coat of machine oil takes care of that. No reason the sword can't wait for its owner to study and then make an informed decision.

Grey

[Shuko]

A good idea and it will help us get a slot with a togishi

[Baba Yaga]

Do you really believe "I need help with this sword" isn't smart enough to do a search???  "samurai sword restoration near me"

 If anything they are receiving a education in "sword restoration". 

[Stephen]

<️

[Grey Doffin]

"I need help with this sword" is perfectly capable of a search online for restoration service in his neighborhood, but then what? Will he know which polisher has proper training? Can he trust the polisher to tell him if his sword doesn't warrant the expense?  Will he know how to care for a new polish so it doesn't get scratched and stained in short order after he gets the sword back?

And what the heck is wrong with his taking some time to learn a bit before he starts throwing money at his sword?

Grey

[GeorgeLuucas]

It's my understanding that many togishi have incredibly long waitlists. Having them constantly field newcomers with rusted swords can't be helping that; I imagine. 

For what it's worth, and from personal experience, googling anything Nihonto related is really confusing unless you've have the basic vocabulary down. So hopefully people at least learn not to attempt an amateur restoration themselves. -- Maybe that's all the initial advice that should be given. 

I think your suggestion is good, Grey. Knowledge and learning should always come before spending the big $

[Ooitame]

A good subject we run into often, perhaps a pinned writeup for guidance would be a good idea.

[Mark S.]

9 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

Do you really believe "I need help with this sword" isn't smart enough to do a search???  "samurai sword restoration near me"

 If anything they are receiving an education in "sword restoration". 

There are days I have no idea why you are here other than to remind us that “pictures are useless”.  What the hell does your post even mean???

[Rivkin]

I don't know the exact reason why whatever is the case the most likely advice someone posting a sword to receive is:

1. Show it to someone "who really knows".

2. Show it to a polisher.

3. Have it polished!

 

Its just the way it always goes...

[Baba Yaga]

16 hours ago, Mark S. said:

There are days I have no idea why you are here 

 

Why am I here??? I'm here wanting to know why "Art Swords" haven't appreciated in the last 35 years. ???

I'm here wanting to know why veteran polishers are making what they did $ 35 years ago. BTW veteran polishers make what my Gardner does about $35Hr.???

I'm here wanting to know why Japanese Shinsa is so laxed ???

I'm here wanting to know why so many Keyboard Collectors are reinforcing poor observation skills when it comes to photo's.  ???

I'm here wanting to know why the same "old" grifters are still guarding the Hens House???

 

I can keep writing about why I'm here but I'm sure you get the clues "Smokey".

 

"What the hell does your post even mean???"

AH - HA This polishing is  

 

Well.... lets look at Japans crumbling economy and that will give you a hint about "My Posts". 

People are going to spend there own money however they dam well please and on whatever they dam well want. 

The only thing you can do is "Try" an educate. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NewB]

Here we go again..

 

I find it absolutely pathetic that a good advice as a topic, posted by a member with 40 years experience goes to this point in a flash.. and so it seems by the same or very few individuals here

 

No I'm not pointing fingers and I'm not taking sides - facts!

 

If any of the folks here have nothing important to add to the topic then i suggest -  just do not reply. It'll help everyone involved, no clutter, no arguments, no bad feelings 

 

Now if the point is to instigate and be everything but a cordial member then the high table has to make a ruling.

 

Pure and simple

 

J

[Baba Yaga]

12 hours ago, Rivkin said:

I don't know the exact reason why whatever is the case the most likely advice someone posting a sword to receive is:

1. Show it to someone "who really knows".

2. Show it to a polisher.

3. Have it polished!

 

Its just the way it always goes...

 

That's about it. Simple enough for the majority who want to know "if authentic" and "Whats it worth". Why 

[jesse]

I agree with Grey and NewB.  Getting a sword and rushing to polish it 'can' be a waste of money and time.

Steer the individuals to books and have them dive into prior articles and posts on this forum is a better education for all sword enthusiasts. 

It saddens me that the current culture is far too quick to anger and angsts and I wish people would be a little more diplomatic.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Warm Regards,

Jesse

[Jon]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:19 AM, Grey Doffin said:

Hi gang,

Not wanting to hijack another thread, I'm opening this to suggest that we all take a break from encouraging rank beginners at Nihonto to have their swords polished. These are well meaning new collectors who know almost nothing about their swords (nothing terrible about that; we were all there once) yet time after time they are told they need to spend $2,000 to $4,000 for a restoration they again know almost nothing about. Polish is serious business with many variables that need to be taken into account before a decision is made. Even with 40 years of learning under my belt, I go slow with having something polished. There is no way a beginner should rush into this.

Polish isn't preservation; a light coat of machine oil takes care of that. No reason the sword can't wait for its owner to study and then make an informed decision.

Grey

I think there is a second bit of advice to go with that around not buying rusting out of Polish nihonto, unless your really able to spot the jems.. As not only is the rusting Nihonto not collectible and liable to not get a return when you try and sell, restoration is a big financial risk, but it’s not something you can use to take what you,ve read in a book and see the application in real life. 

 

The truth is books can only get you so far…you need polished blades in hand as a reference point. 
 

So I would turn the point around a bit and say  when you have your basic book knowledge, start your collection with a modest, in Polish and papered blade..moving it along at the right time and then get a new blade to study…there should be no need to give advice around getting a blade polished for a new collector, the advice should be get a polished papered blade..when you are old and wise in the hobby start to  rescue those gems that need polishing if that’s what gives you pleasure or buy polished gems without papers.

 

There are always exceptions to the rule and one of those is the family heirloom, this was how I got into the hobby, getting an old wall hanger..it was a koto blade, but had a HAGIRE…there is was no real economic reason to get the blade polished other than it was in the family for 3 generations and it has real meaning to the family so polished it was….and it’s a lovely study piece even if it’s go that Fatal flaw as well as having meaning to the family.

[Nick m]

Esteemed members,

 

Sorry if too long

 

As I have only been a member about 6 months and am a first time owner would like to share my perspective from the advice I have seen here on the forum.( Correct me in I am wrong on anything please)

 

Find that the decision to polish is fraught with many risks and rewards.

 

I have think that in this day and age of instant gratification many do not under stand the history, culture and significance of their ninhoto and just want that perfect Hollywood sword.. at least when it comes to the younger generations.  I have 2 boys so it is frustrating at times to give advice and watch them direguard it.

 

I think that:

1. Telling new owners to preserve (wiping, oil etc) initially is right

2. Telling new owners to educate themselves on the culture, history and significance of ninhoto (Google is your friend) and talk to others is right.

3. Telling new owners to physically see what a sword in the different levels of polish look like is right.

4. Recommendations on reputable polishers and or sources of polisher research is right.

5. And that once the new owner has made some progress in the above for than a knowledgeable or informed decision as to whether to polish or not can be made by them.

 

In the end we can only provide the sources and knowledge, the owner has to decide for themselves the true reason for wanting to polish and why they want the ninhoto.

 

For example my "dumpster find" my end goal with or without a polish is to aquire period correct fittings and mountings and return it to a fully functional form. However there were several generations of Smith who use that signature. So I have research. Procurement of the fittings and mountains will drive in the end whether I polish my blade or not.

 

 

Let the slings and arrows fly.

 

 

 

[Mark S.]

No slings or arrows.  At the end of the day, it is your money and you can do with it as you see fit.  Members here can only comment and provide ‘conventional (hard earned experience) wisdom’ that can lead to less regret later on.  I have had a blade or two that the purchase of, or polish of, would be seen as ‘not having a return on investment’.  As long as you understand that and the item makes you happy no matter what others think, then you are free to do as you choose.  

[Nick m]

26 minutes ago, Mark S. said:

No slings or arrows.  At the end of the day, it is your money and you can do with it as you see fit.  Members here can only comment and provide ‘conventional (hard earned experience) wisdom’ that can lead to less regret later on.  I have had a blade or two that the purchase of, or polish of, would be seen as ‘not having a return on investment’.  As long as you understand that and the item makes you happy no matter what others think, then you are free to do as you choose.  

You are correct and I agree with you there.

 

But I have found as I have gotten older that when other individuals who have knowledge that I do not it is wise to listen to them.

 

Although I will not deny that in my youth I failed to do that and have paid the price and either money or damaged items.

[Bruce Pennington]

Helping to educate is why many of us are here.  While I enjoy living vicariously through each sword that shows up, my real "thrill," now, is helping the newbie along the path.  I enjoy my collection, but it is complete.  I enjoy our research.  And I enjoy educating the knowledge seeker.  And like Nick said, all we can do is advise.  The responsibility of the next step falls on the newbie.

[nulldevice]

Just gonna hop in and say you guys have been incredibly helpful so far. I was over on a gun forum that has a thread going on about Japanese swords and everyone mentioned this forum if you really want to talk to the smart folk. That was an understatement based on what I've seen here so far! There is a massive amount of knowledge here.