Should i return this Type 94 gunto?

[Rokkit]

I bought this type 94 Gunto yesterday at auction,  Picked it up today and the menuki on the right side is missing ( i was a part of the object, which makes me egible for a return and full payback of hammerprice + auction premium (850 euro in total)

I suspect someone might have taken it during the viewing days.

 

Would you return the blade? the saya is in very good condition for its age, the first pictures are from an earlier auction, its is now missing the top ornament on the saya.

 

The ito on the tsuka has worn since this auction, i planned on rewrapping it but it seems kinda useless with the missing menuki.

 

 

 

 

'

 

 

old state of the katana with the complete fittings on the saya (apart from the hangers)

 

 

lastest auction with the ito coming almost completely loose, and holding the menuki on the left side, the now missing menuki lying in the background 

[Matsunoki]

All depends on how good/what the actual blade is. A missing menuki can be replaced. A missing saya mount might be a bit trickier but not a deal breaker.

[vajo]

Bishu ju Yoshimitsu 備州住吉光

 

This is not the seki Yoshimitsu. Maybe another collector knows him. 

 

the fittings looks nice. I like those rising sun seppa. 

The Saya looks not broken in good condition. The Ashi heads with the rings are gone. Could be a problem to replace because they are rare.

The navy menuki is replacebale with some search. But i bet under 50 Dollar it is hard to find. 

The saya rewraping cost around 150 EUR but you need a new black same too. The ito is mostly a problem to find a good one. 

 

I can't say nothing about the blade. I see nothing on your pictures to judge if it is showato or gendai. I didn't find that smith in my books.

 

Why did you buy it? What was the trigger to jump in? If you like it - hold it and look further. But it cost money to bring it in a collectible condition.

 

 

 

 

[John C]

Type 97 kai gunto?

 

John C.

[ChrisW]

If that is a silver habaki, they didn't tend to put those on junk blades. WWII menuki are easily replaceable.

[Bruce Pennington]

Agree with John, this is not a Type 94. It is a Type 97 kaigunto, a Navy Sword.

 

Also agree with the others that this Kunto can be restored. You’re only in €850, for a sword that would normally sell for €1400-€2400.  Of course, if you don’t want, or have, the time to work on such a restoration, then you would be justified in returning it. But you got a good deal.

[Rokkit]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:59 PM, Matsunoki said:

All depends on how good/what the actual blade is. A missing menuki can be replaced. A missing saya mount might be a bit trickier but not a deal breaker.

 

 

Thank you for your help! Im overwhelmed by all the response on my question!. The blade seems to be in original polish. the hamon is clearly visible along the whole edge of the blade.

Which is strange is that the kissaki seems to be scratched with sandpaper. Might his have been a field sharpening or did this never happen?

 

There is also pitting along the back of the blade, how do these impact the worth of the katana?

 

On 11/7/2023 at 8:36 PM, vajo said:

Bishu ju Yoshimitsu 備州住吉光

 

This is not the seki Yoshimitsu. Maybe another collector knows him. 

 

the fittings looks nice. I like those rising sun seppa. 

The Saya looks not broken in good condition. The Ashi heads with the rings are gone. Could be a problem to replace because they are rare.

The navy menuki is replacebale with some search. But i bet under 50 Dollar it is hard to find. 

The saya rewraping cost around 150 EUR but you need a new black same too. The ito is mostly a problem to find a good one. 

 

I can't say nothing about the blade. I see nothing on your pictures to judge if it is showato or gendai. I didn't find that smith in my books.

 

Why did you buy it? What was the trigger to jump in? If you like it - hold it and look further. But it cost money to bring it in a collectible condition.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the translation! There is no seki stamp so i wonder wo he was.

The hamon (which was very hard to photograph is very irregular with high peaks, might this indicate a gendaito? The first auction the katana sold at indicates it as a meji blade, they might be wrong though, i will call them and try to verify.

I also like the seppa, it was indicated as goldplated by the auction house it sold at (they are very thorough so might be correct.

Im happy to hear  the menuki is easy to replace, the current one also seems to be gold or goldplated as visible in the picture.

 

I saw someone is selling ashi on here so that would be perfect, the next question would be how i would get the current one of.

 

The ito is sold here ( pure silk) I would love the rewrapping myself , would that be possible with patience and clamping the blade? Seems like quite a work but doable. 

 

I was looking at other items at the auction and came upon it 2 hours before close, really liked to look of it so just bought it on gut feeling.

On 11/7/2023 at 10:40 PM, John C said:

Type 97 kai gunto?

 

John C.

 

 

youre correct, thank you.

 

On 11/7/2023 at 11:42 PM, ChrisW said:

If that is a silver habaki, they didn't tend to put those on junk blades. WWII menuki are easily replaceable.

 

i didnt even have time to take a good look at the blade when i brought it home, you seem to be right, seppa and menuki also seem to be goldplated and gold.

 

On 11/7/2023 at 11:46 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Agree with John, this is not a Type 94. It is a Type 97 kaigunto, a Navy Sword.

 

Also agree with the others that this Kunto can be restored. You’re only in €850, for a sword that would normally sell for €1400-€2400.  Of course, if you don’t want, or have, the time to work on such a restoration, then you would be justified in returning it. But you got a good deal.

 

Thank you bruce, i must say im a bit shocked i got this got of a deal, i was feeling bummed about the missing Would that price still be viable with the condition of the kissaki and the pitting on the back of the blade?

I do have the time to restore it, its mostly a question of wanting, although polshing is a very zen experience.

 

 

 

 

[vajo]

It looks gendai. In your last picture is nice activity seen and no dark shadow and spots. Try to make pictures with sunlight. Are there some ara nie?

Could be mixed steel too  We should find out more about the smith.

[Rokkit]

It looked gendai to me to

 

ive been jumping around the house here for a bit after i contacted the auction house this katana sold trough years ago.

 

they told me the original descprition. 

 

Its made by Yoshimitsu of the Yanagawa clan, a meiji smith.

 

I contemplated returning it yesterday before ive even read all the responses here. 

the blade is def. staying now.

[vajo]

 

Its a nice one. Good buy. Good decission. 

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, Rokkit said:

Would that price still be viable with the condition of the kissaki and the pitting on the back of the blade?

The price range I listed was based on a kaigunto with complete fittings.  And yes, they still go that high with blades in your condition.  

[Rokkit]

On 11/9/2023 at 4:40 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

The price range I listed was based on a kaigunto with complete fittings.  And yes, they still go that high with blades in your condition.  

 

Thank you for your help. I didn't notice the sticky topic in the forum about inquiring about worth, for which I'm sorry 

[Rokkit]

On 11/9/2023 at 2:45 PM, vajo said:

 

Its a nice one. Good buy. Good decission. 

Thank you. I'm contemplating doing some light polishing to get the scratches out and make the hamon more visible.

[vajo]

no - no self polish 

[Conway S]

As Chris said, don't do it yourself. You can make it more difficult for a trained professional to polish it properly in the future. There are plenty of threads on the NMB explaining why this is not a good idea. Just oil with choji oil or camellia oil. There are also discussions on the types of oils that should be used to preserve the blade and prevent rusting.

 

Conway 

[Rokkit]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:36 PM, vajo said:

no - no self polish 

 

On 11/13/2023 at 7:40 PM, Conway S said:

As Chris said, don't do it yourself. You can make it more difficult for a trained professional to polish it properly in the future. There are plenty of threads on the NMB explaining why this is not a good idea. Just oil with choji oil or camellia oil. There are also discussions on the types of oils that should be used to preserve the blade and prevent rusting.

 

Conway 

 

 

I contemplated using a very high grit sandpaper. After your comments and a lot of research I found out this would have been a fatal mistake. Thank you for the warnings

[vajo]

Ramin i fully understand your wish to improve the condition of the sword. I have some swords in the same condition. And one of these is a high valued Akihisa Type3 with some areas of those kind of self removing sandpaper rust trying. It looks bad every time i look on the sword. I leave it in that condition. I will send this sword somewhere in time to a polisher but not at the moment. It lays good in my tansu i oil it from time to time and do nothing on it.

 

I'm sure when i would sell it someone else would jump on it and start self polishing. So it is on us to make it better with spending some money or leave it as it is.

[Rokkit]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:41 PM, vajo said:

Ramin i fully understand your wish to improve the condition of the sword. I have some swords in the same condition. And one of these is a high valued Akihisa Type3 with some areas of those kind of self removing sandpaper rust trying. It looks bad every time i look on the sword. I leave it in that condition. I will send this sword somewhere in time to a polisher but not at the moment. It lays good in my tansu i oil it from time to time and do nothing on it.

 

I'm sure when i would sell it someone else would jump on it and start self polishing. So it is on us to make it better with spending some money or leave it as it is.

Ill understand, i think te sword is still in its oringal polish (maybe even since the meij period) Could you show pictures of the Type 3? Really curious how it looks.

The auctionhouse contacted me; they actually found the missing menuki on the ground somewhere; in the huge halls they have for storing all the auction objects.