Reasons why swords cannot be imported in Belgium

[Yves]

Hi, 
 

As an FYI to all who would want to try this in the future. In my journey to acquire a set of swords, I ran into new legislation that has been put in place in Belgium in December 2022. I hereby provide the link but it is in Dutch, so you'll need to translate.

Wapens aankopen op het internet voortaan verboden - Team Justitie

What it comes down to is that the government has implemented a rule that any citizen is forbidden to buy what can be considered a weapon (so under this definition also fall iaito, boken and shinai for example) when bought online. You only have 2 options left: buy it in person or go through an arms dealer.
If you do buy it you run the risk of (i) jail sentence and (ii) destruction of the weapons. 

Needless to say this makes life extremely difficult and I'm told that the EU would want to implement the same. 
 

[Brian]

Wow. Just wow.
 

[uwe]

My goodness…

[PNSSHOGUN]

Insanity, contact your local MP and encourage all other collectors to do the same.

[Alex A]

Aye, 

 

From memory, think the Token Society of GB sorted out some legislation with the government that was having a similar impact

 

Paul B or other members here would know more 

 

Hope it gets amended as it sounds a terrible injustice to genuine antique collectors

[Alex A]

Just to add, make sure you have not missed any exceptions for antiques in that legislation, sometimes you find it written elsewhere.

 

 

[Yves]

Terror governments.

No exemptions for antiques. And apart from the collectors it will be the death blow for iaido, jodo, kendo.

But hey, an a positive note…we can now start doing pissing contests against police vans. The minister of the judicial department has been giving the enlightened example for this:

https://www.brussels...vestigation-launched

[Cola]

Wow even boken... Are they going to ban sticks as well?

[Yves]

Don’t know but anything is possible. It just mentions weapons. That can mean anything, even the knife you use to cut your steak. 

[ROKUJURO]

No problem: ban steaks! 

As carrots are potentially dangerous, you should only buy them cut in slices......

[Yves]

1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

No problem: ban steaks! 

As carrots are potentially dangerous, you should only buy them cut in slices......

I think this woke thing in todays society is completely out of proportion. Unfortunately in the process everything is destroyed. And let destroying be the easiest thing in the world, hence why governments and civil servants are so damn good at it. The citizens need to build everything up, so they can do their job of destroying it all. Sad. 

[ROKUJURO]

What about banning or destroying modern mass killing weapons - all nations, and all at the same point of time?

[Baba Yaga]

Like I posted a year ago, laws like this are only going to get worse, not better. Keep your powder dry!

[Yves]

I can only express my disdain over something like this. 

[DirkO]

If over 100 years old, they're not considered weapons and you can import them. Just make sure the seller shipping them to you clearly states this. I've imported from Japan after the date you mentioned without any issue. 

[YOSE]

Very sad to learn that.

Exemptions would be reasonable though.

 

In Switzerland, many items are regulated by law, fortunately katana are not, whether sharp or not. Strangely, screw drivers and bicycle chains are (in specific cass)...

 

[Yves]

22 hours ago, DirkO said:

If over 100 years old, they're not considered weapons and you can import them. Just make sure the seller shipping them to you clearly states this. I've imported from Japan after the date you mentioned without any issue. 

The link above clearly indicates what the rule is Dirk. I presume you can read this being from Belgium.  It applies to all weapons. No exemptions, not even for weapons older than 100 years. (https://justitie.bel..._n/vrij_verkrijgbaar) I also know of swords that were bought in 2023 over the internet that made it into the country. However, they may have just been lucky. Arms regulation is not exactly something that you want to violate as it carries some heavy jail sentences to it. I presume these rules will get increasingly enforced as time passes.

I was not aware of this either and it was pointed out to me by someone so I have meanwhile taken a different route to reach my goal which is within the limits of the law. It will cost extra but it comes at additional insurance also. 

The main problem is that this type of laws make the practicing of Martial arts such as Iai, Jodo and Kendo extremely difficult in Belgium. Apparently our politicians don't care (as always)

[Brian]

Govts...turning law abiding peaceful citizens into criminals for hundreds of years.

[Yves]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

Govts...turning law abiding peaceful citizens into criminals for hundreds of years.

Yes absolutely not a fan of govs either

[DirkO]

@Yves I'm sorry, but you're wrong - your links actually confirm what I said. If you read the circular that's mentioned in your link, you'll notice that all edged weapons are excempt unless specified otherwise. And again - edged weapons +100 years old aren't even considered as weapons, but collectables in Belgium. The law (that still needs to be voted by the way) you mention is focussed on firearms. This because criminals have been known to reactivate old deactivated firearms.

[Yves]

Sorry Dirk. Incorrect. See the Weapons law chapter 8 alinea 1 - forbidden actions (version 2018 - passed on 1-12-2022 as mentioned in the link in my first post) which explains what is forbidden. Purchase of weapons over the internet is now forbidden. It just mentions weapons, not only fire arms and makes no exclusion for weapons older than 100 years. 

The text that you published is correct in the sense that they are still seen as blank weapons and thus free of licences etc, but you just cannot buy them over the internet anymore unless you physically do so. In effect this would mean that if your sword would be in Japan or in the US you would physically need to go there and buy the thing and then bring it back with you. The latter is particularly a problem since no airliner will carry weapons anymore (any weapons) so also the bladed ones even if in your lugage stored in the belly of the airplane. Believe me I have inquired with all the packet service companies and airline companies and have gotten the same reply.

The effect of this is that you would not be able to purchase a sword that is not in Belgium already, unless you go through a licenced weapons dealer. He has now also the obligation to check your id as you need to be older than 18 years. 
 

 

[Alex A]

Just reading over this site  https://finance.belg...nd-exporting-weapons

 

"What are the exceptions to the licence requirement for the import or export of weapons?

‘Non-firearms', such as air rifles and side arms (knives and other cutting arms) are not subject to the licensing regime. This is even the case when the 2006 Arms Act does make it compulsory to obtain a licence for possession and use within Belgium.

Some side arms are classified under the category of prohibited weapons. As is the case for all other prohibited weapons, the Regions do not issue licences for this category. Only a limited number of exceptions provided for in the Arms Act 2006 allow the import of prohibited weapons under licence.

Traffic within the Benelux does not require a licence either,"

 

 

PS. quickly reading over your link above, cant see anything written other than "weapons" and "guns"

 

Its very vague.

 

Surely they cant be turning antique collectors into criminals, that's ridiculously stupid 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yves]

33 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Just reading over this site  https://finance.belg...nd-exporting-weapons

 

"What are the exceptions to the licence requirement for the import or export of weapons?

‘Non-firearms', such as air rifles and side arms (knives and other cutting arms) are not subject to the licensing regime. This is even the case when the 2006 Arms Act does make it compulsory to obtain a licence for possession and use within Belgium.

Some side arms are classified under the category of prohibited weapons. As is the case for all other prohibited weapons, the Regions do not issue licences for this category. Only a limited number of exceptions provided for in the Arms Act 2006 allow the import of prohibited weapons under licence.

Traffic within the Benelux does not require a licence either,"

 

 

There are actually 3 categories of weapons in Belgium:
- forbidden weapons (such as shuriken, nunchaku's, military grade weapons etc).
- weapons for which a licence is required (such as fire arms)
- free weapons (under which typically all bladed weapons)

However and although the third category is free it still falls under the restricitions under chapter 8 which says that ordering weapons (no category specified) over the internet is forbidden for private persons. 

Anything related to the second category requires a licence. Meaning, you can  for example only sell a gun to someone who also has the proper licence. I do not know much about the second category aside from what has been told to me by people who own guns. So cannot comment on that aspect. 

Wapenwet - Gecoordineerde versie | Wapenunie Online

Chapter 8 alinea 1 says:

 

HOOFDSTUK VIII. –Verbodsbepalingen

Art. 19. Het is verboden :
1° wapens alsook losse onderdelen die aan de wettelijk voorgeschreven proef zijn onderworpen per postorder of via het internet te kopen of te verkopen, te koop aan te bieden of over te dragen aan particulieren, of de verkoop op afstand van wapens, munitie en laders aan particulieren te organiseren

Translated

Art. 19: It is forbidden:
1. to sell, buy or advertise for sale weapons as well as lose parts  for those who fall under the required legal tests via postorder or the internet or to transfer to private persons or to sell  or organise the sale at distance of weapons, ammunition, loaders to private persons

The last part of that sentence is specifically what I was saying. It doesn't make any exceptions at all. Selling any weapon ammo or loaders to a private person over the internet is forbidden. 

One can always take the risk, but I was told that nihonto were already confiscated for this reason and destroyed 

 

[Alex A]

Well, just don't write "weapon" on the package lol

 

Just ask a sender to state "Antique Japanese artefact", which is what they are.

 

Customs tariff no. whatever that is these days.

 

Take it from there.

 

etc etc

 

 

 

 

[Yves]

12 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Well, just don't write "weapon" on the package lol

 

Just ask a sender to state "Antique Japanese artefact", which is what they are.

 

Customs tariff no. whatever that is these days.

 

Take it from there.

 

etc etc

 

 

 

 

This is not about an antique in my case but a new sword. 

[Alex A]

Ok, then describe as Traditionally made Japanese cultural artwork

 

If it is not more than 100 years old and it is an art sword, it is a "collectible item of historical/ethnographic interest." 9705.00.00.90  (Darcy's write up)

 

Ps, Good to be member of stuff like

 

Antique arms society

Token society

 

etc etc

[Yves]

19 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Ok, then describe as Traditionally made Japanese cultural artwork

 

If it is not more than 100 years old and it is an art sword, it is a "collectible item of historical/ethnographic interest." 9705.00.00.90  (Darcy's write up)

 

Ps, Good to be member of stuff like

 

Antique arms society

Token society

 

etc etc

 Like I said, the problem for me is solved. For an expensive nihonto this is doable, but for ordering a low cost iaito, boken etc that we use in our dojo, this is not feasible. Lucky for me my sword will last me until I'm not able to train anymore but for newcomers this will be a completely different thing. So, our martial art will die out in Belgium. 

[Soshin]

17 hours ago, Yves said:

The latter is particularly a problem since no airliner will carry weapons anymore (any weapons) so also the bladed ones even if in your lugage stored in the belly of the airplane.

 

In the USA this is not an accurate statement. In Belgium it might be accurate, but I don't know as I have never been to Belgium. I have flown many times with antique Japanese edge weapons packed safely and securely packed in my checked bags placed in the cargo hold of the airplane without any problems. In terms of Japanese marital arts, I have mostly just participated in the local and semi-local demonstrations so flying was not necessary.      

[Wayben]

Flying with firearms within the US is also possible, as long as they are in a locked container in the cargo hold.

[Yves]

5 hours ago, Soshin said:

 

In the USA this is not an accurate statement. In Belgium it might be accurate, but I don't know as I have never been to Belgium. I have flown many times with antique Japanese edge weapons packed safely and securely packed in my checked bags placed in the cargo hold of the airplane without any problems. In terms of Japanese marital arts, I have mostly just participated in the local and semi-local demonstrations so flying was not necessary.      

I have checked in Belgium with several airliners and package services among which DHL, UPS, Belgian Postal Services, Japanese Postal Service, SN Brussels Airlines etc. All refused. Might just be Europe, who knows. Most of them now also have these specific exclusions mentioned on their websites.