copy 1886

[Pippo]

Sorry, had this posted in wrong secton.

had both of these swords in my collectiomln for a couple of years,  but had doubts about the brown grip one as while not poorly made ( owned alot of type 19s that have all been genuine but ranged in quality) Cetainly not modern made but not like the chinese/ indian copies ive seen out their. Thoughts please and if able please explain why.

Thanks in advance.

[Pippo]

[Pippo]

[Bruce Pennington]

I'm away from my books for a couple days.  @John C - can you check Dawson and see what he says about the grib color/material?  He usually describes the grips.

 

And Pippo - what kind of nakago is inside that handle?  Any mei?

[PNSSHOGUN]

The brown handled one does look to be a reproduction, the tassel is a fake as well.

[Pippo]

No nothing signed and knew tassel was a copy but left it on , the grip is some sort of reptile.yes looked on Dawson and he says various shades of sharkskin,and says general grade grip differs but doesnt elaborate. Popped my naval sword next to ot as all correct but has plain leather grip ( i always assumed replaced- sharkskins pretty well gone off svabbard bar around mounts) so wondered if this was same?

[PNSSHOGUN]

The bohi looked pretty dodgy and Habaki rather crude, more photos would give a better idea.

[Stephen]

Fittings are pretty well done I'd say, for sure begs futher study.

Do you have F& G big book?

[Stephen]

Say does Omura San have any listed?

[Michael T]

Backstrap and the hand guard of the brown handle look original to me. The hand guard has a small break, as you sometimes see there on real pieces as well. A look at the inside of the backstrap would be interesting.

 

 

Michael

[Pippo]

inside handle , only have fuller and dawson reference books. Was trying to find old photo of type 19 i collected , back when they and ncos were all i could afford and before they started to be copied, they were all original with family mons or skulls but variety and quality of fittings and blades was quite varied ( id be thinking when patterns first came out there was a thriving smiths industry trying to outfit the army that accounted for variety before mass machine standardised). Guess what im trying to work out is has anyone got one similar even if it is an old copy and this turns out to be a decent/ old chinese copy.

[lonely panet]

The wire isn't original. So its possible that it was done in the field or evan post war, at the very best. But the wood isnt a good shape. Theres good points and suspect points. Its boarder line for me. 

[Pippo]

next to one of my more standard 1886s, good point about the bohi someone brought up, its actually very straight edged and consistant but is oval at end near blade point rather than the normal angled ending seen on machined fullers.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Close pictures of the Habaki and Kissaki areas are needed, from that shot it looks either very low quality or not Japanese.

[lonely panet]

Personal thoughts just on the blade

 Repro

[Pippo]

40 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Close pictures of the Habaki and Kissaki areas are needed, from that shot it looks either very low quality or not Japanese.

photos im posting are all around the limit which is why im only posting one ot 2 at a time

Habaki is solid, lookd to be copper coated in brass ,youll see the underlying copper in 1 shot.Jope this helps.

 

[Pippo]

[Pippo]

kissaki

[PNSSHOGUN]

Yes, not Japanese I'm afraid.

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, lonely panet said:

wire isn't original.

Hamish,

For my education, as I understand it, these had a 3-wire, wire.  Am I correct in that this one is a 1-piece wire rig?  From a distance, it looks like 3-wire, but close-up, it is one piece?

 

On the other hand .... what about the fact that these varied greatly from shop to shop in this era?

 

Not taking sides, just getting educated.

[Pippo]

Triple wire binding which was standard european military grip binding pattern of the time, middle wire twist with wire either side.

49 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Hamish,

For my education, as I understand it, these had a 3-wire, wire.  Am I correct in that this one is a 1-piece wire rig?  From a distance, it looks like 3-wire, but close-up, it is one piece?

 

On the other hand .... what about the fact that these varied greatly from shop to shop in this era?

 

Not taking sides, just getting educated.

 

[lonely panet]

your wire is just plain sold wire,  almost electronical wire in construction.

 

the typical wire you find on kyu tsuka is elaberate in its construction,  like a piano wire being and the centre wire is normally a 3 wire type

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Pippo said:

standard european military grip binding pattern of the time, middle wire twist with wire either side.

That's how I see it Nick

[lonely panet]

Peaple lack eyes, basic 2 seconds of searching.  

 

Note the difference 

[Conway S]

Greetings, 

 

I thought of this thread when I saw the following field grade Type 19 for sale. To me this sword looks rather low quality - The grip looks new, the scabbard drag is more rounded than normally encountered on Type 19 Kyu Gunto and the ana is offset. The mei looks very crude as well. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts. 

 

Original Japanese Pre-WWII Army Company Grade Officer's 1886 Pattern Kyu-Gunto Sword with Marked Blade & Scabbard

 

Conway 

[lonely panet]

its a very obvious fake,   shitfull quality