Info needed for katana from battle of Iwo Jima

[gbundersea]

This sword was brought back from Iwo Jima by a now deceased family member. Like many combat veterans, he did not speak of his experience there, so we know nothing about the sword.

I carefully removed the tsuka. It has a single menuki, though the tang has two holes in it. The saya is covered with brown leather.

There are no stamps or serial numbers on the blade. I attached pictures of the writing found on the tang.

It has a cloudy hamon, and what appears to be a fine grain visible in the steel.

Any and all translations, information, and thoughts will be most appreciated!

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Welcome Greg!

Clearly, you have done some homework!  Good job, dude.

I cannot help with the smith name, but I can say the fittings are quality, custom.  The original owner paid some extra cash to have this fitted out in a classy way.

 

In fact, I have never seen this done quite like this, some similar, but not fully as good.

[mywei]

Signed Bizen Kuni Norimune I think (unusually on both sides of the nakago)

 

Not sure of authenticity or which Norimune this is, but regardless it will be an older blade

 

More close ups of the blade and tip(kissaki) would help

[gbundersea]

Thank you, gentlemen, for the great info!

 

Per your suggestion, I took additional pictures, concentrating on the blade and tip.

 

Be aware that the blade does have a light sheen of oil on it, so some of the fine lines with show up in the photographs are likely the oil. However, I did carefully wipe clean about 4" of the blade closest to the habaki, using a lint free shop towel, so that area gives you a good idea of the true appearance of the steel, as shown in the first of these newest pictures.

[PNSSHOGUN]

The hanger looks like it could be removable, is the bottom hinged?

[Brian]

Decent older sword taken to war. Worth preserving.

[Rivkin]

It does appear Bizen-like, has utsuri, definitely koto.

It has potential. Can't comment on signature's validity, but what is seen is  decent. If you are selling, would be interested in buying.

Stylewise its also does not have the Muromachi vibe, there is a chance its older.

[almeister]

Hi gb

As is generally the case ...

Better pics with no fittings ... 

Tip up /tang down  (both sides ) ...

Sectional areas from tip to lower tang ..

Lower pic shows habaki/collar lòose  fitting  , but upper pic shows it not in correct place/dropped down ...

Try better lighting/pics of boshi/tip as current pics seem to show area worked on at some stage and disappeared hamon ... ?

Maybe  , just my old eye's 👀  

Cheers AlanK 🍺 

[Matsunoki]

47 minutes ago, almeister said:

Lower pic shows habaki/collar lòose  fitting  , but upper pic shows it not in correct place/dropped down ...

I think that’s simply because the tsuka is not fitted thus all the fittings have slipped a bit. Can’t see any area worked on nor missing hamon…..I think the heavy smearing of oil is hiding a lot and giving wrong impressions.
looks an old and interesting sword…especially as the koshirae is nice quality and a bit unusual. Can you carefully remove a bit more oil and try some more images

……and don’t sell it in a hurry. Make sure you know what you’ve got first.

[gbundersea]

Thank you very much for all the input! And you guys definitely have keen eyes. It was indeed covered in a heavy coating of oil (not my doing!) and the fittings had moved around a bit due to the fact that the tsuka was removed.

 

I carefully wiped it with a clean white paper towel, removing most if not all of the oil.

I then painstakingly took a lot of photographs, per your instructions, along with extras of all the fittings and saya, on both sides. I put those into a photo gallery, along with high resolution versions of the pictures from yesterday showing the writing on the tang.

 

The hamon does continue all the way to the tip, and I saw nothing to indicate a repair, damage, etc.

 

Here is the link to that gallery: https://photos.app.g...gl/nD493CVJ1NfRUosXA

[gbundersea]

12 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

The hanger looks like it could be removable, is the bottom hinged?

Take a look at the detailed pictures I just uploaded, and let me know if they provide the answer to your question.

 

Here is the link to that gallery: https://photos.app.g...gl/nD493CVJ1NfRUosXA

[Rivkin]

Unfortunately this needs to be studied in hand.

It is a good blade.

With 95% probability its Bizen and koto.

With the shape like this one it can be quite a few things.

The best case scenario you have Fukuoka Ichimoji (btw the signature can still be either fake or real).

The worst case scenario you have Muromachi blade from around 1500 made in old style with a fake signature.

 

Good news is that the condition is sufficient for it to paper. Sending it to Japan to NBTHK is a valid option at this point. If it fails, arrange for the mei to be erased and resubmit.

 

I am 80% convinced the nakago has been tampered with in the past 100 years, which makes me seriously doubt the signature. But sometimes the tampering is just an awkward result of someone trying to improve on things without knowing how to handle swords, i.e. everything is still original.

[gbundersea]

14 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

Unfortunately this needs to be studied in hand... 

Thank you so much for your detailed analysis! What are the costs and risks of sending it to NBTHK? Are such shipments insured?

Forgive my ignorance, as I am a complete noob to all this! Almost everything I know about swords has been learned over the past couple of days, and mostly from you guys! Also, I'm doing this as a favor for a dear friend (ex-wife actually) who is fully occupied with some serious personal issues right now. I want to find out as much as possible so she can make the right decisions with regard to the sword. (And the dirk, which I haven't even photographed yet...)

Again, my most sincere thanks! 

 

[Rivkin]

I don't know what are the actual costs but about 1,000$ tends to be typical amount for the whole operation.

Unfortunately insurance will not help you as the blade's value at this point is unknown. 

Yes, there is a chance it will disappear, though some of those who can take it to NBTHK (Bob Benson?) are US based so the risk will be with American USPS. Which is horrible vis-a-vis intentional packages received but not so much (yet) internally.

More likely risk - say it fails, then erasing the signature (500$) and you don't know how well they'll do the repatination (it does affect the judgement) and then the worst you get is some generic Bizen judgement to 1520.

At this point you are likely 1.5 years and 2000 invested in a blade that you can then sell for 1500-2500.

 

The best case scenario is obviously very attractive, but simply because such blades are very rare its usually not too likely... but I think this blade has a fighting chance.

 

There are sort of in between scenarios where the issue of new polish will come in etc..

[Bruce Pennington]

There are US based shinsa events.  I know one is held in Chicago, and I want to say there is another location, annually.

[Tom Darling]

Leave it alone, it is what it is. 

Good luck with it.

[Tensho]

Interesting koshirae on that. Can you take a photo of the underside of the metal hanger on the sheath? It looks like it "could" be a removable hanger as was mentioned earlier.  

 

The tsuba and seppa are cut for a Chuso, but the tsuka,  fuchi and saya are not. But the one seppa was obviously modified for the leather button strap. Perhaps a late war "high end" koshirae purchase/piece together of what parts were available at a shop? I guess this would be better discussed on the military sub forum. 

[gbundersea]

Here are some close-up pictures of the hanger on the saya.

 

It does indeed appear to be hinged.

[PNSSHOGUN]

You can unscrew it from the top, though there is little reason to beyond your own amusement. This is a most unusual but good quality setup, please keep it in the family.

 

 

 

[Rivkin]

I will admit to buying this blade... and having little idea what it is. The mei "stands out" to an extent I am tempted having it erased before shinsa. But then on the other hand its almost as if someone polished the area after the fact. The patina elsewhere looks quite old.

[Rivkin]

If going by sugata its simple. Kasane 0.7cm, very low shinogi, massive blade with profound koshizori points to Bizen Nambokucho to maybe Oei, most likely some kozori name.

Boshi is a bit narrow for Muromachi so maybe its earlier. Chances its Kamakura... well those often tend to be wishful thinking. Weird iori mune, the ridge on the top is so short the mune almost feels flat.

 

The work however is frankly speaking nuts. Its out of polish so you can't see tight itame with ji nie, but it appears to be there. Complex utsuri. Lots of ara nie (???). It almost made me think shinshinto, but utsuri and highly uneven style are not a match for anyone I've seen. sugata is obviously way off also, as is low shinogi. Everything changes within the blade, at one point there are tons of tobiyaki which crawl all over, next place its hard nie splashing everywhere, and a few cm later it is almost textbook Yoshioka Ichimonji. Utsuri is complex. Nioi guchi - very bright and broad. Last polish was very good but prewar. 

 

As always my photography technique is "Fujishiro" so it might look weird for some.

 

[vajo]

The lines of the polish are razorsharp. Its a an old family sword and who ever polished it over 80 years ago for the war knows his job. 

Its a nice koto sword. Gimei or not.

Give the leather some care.