One mans mokume is another itame?

[Rich Thomas]

Hi guys wondering if you could help me clear up a problem I'm having in my study.

I'm learning about the characteristics of blades from various traditions, schools, smiths and putting together a single reference spread sheet for myself to help with kantei and as a way to try and make it sink in..... . I'm using the following books as reference material; - 'Connoisseurs', 'Nihonto Koza', 'Hawleys sword groups' and various others Compton collection, cutting edge, Japanese sword, plus various nihonto info sites like Rob Coles etc

 

It seems that one book's mokume is another's itame... for example

For the Yamato Senjuin scool the jihada traits are described as -

 

Hawleys; Large midare masame hada

Nihonto Koza; Itame with a taste of masame with jinie

Connoisseurs; Mokume hada mixed with jinie and chikei.

Shoshin; ITAME or ITAME-MASA mix, finely done. Can be strong and with O-HADA. JI-NIE.

 

This difference in description happens in many references through most schools, 'Con' says mokume, 'Nk' says itame and occasionally mokume

Would I be correct in saying that earlier books like Nihonto koza (translated from early references) would be less liberal with describing a hada as mokume, where as later books might refer to it more so?

Is there a book or source (maybe that i don't have) that is more correct than others?

 

One other question if I could Yamato described (loosely) as itame and mokume seen but usually a nagare - hada (running) combined with masame? Q;What makes a hada "running"

thanks in advance

Rich T 2

[Jean]

Rich,

 

Congratulations, you have grasped by this description the essence of Nihonto. Each expert describes what he is seeing with his sensibility.

 

Senjuin : I have seen blades with O hada (even rough), fine itame, others with some masame, so everything exist.

 

For NK in the "Con", mokume is the basis. Itame is only a Mokume variation.

 

Unless having seen a lot of swords from a school, you will have a lot of difficulties to kantei a blade by books description.

 

Kantei characteristics given in books are general and stands generally for the first 2/3 generations after various influences make it change.

 

Typical evolution : Rai Kunitoshi, Ryokai, Nobukuni

 

O tempora, O mores ....

 

Sho-shin contains a mint of information on koto schools and individual smith (I wish it has been completed for Soshu and Mino) but it cannot foresee all cases

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Rich,

 

It seems that one book's mokume is another's itame... for example

 

Keep in mind that; 1) the authors are using "classic nihonto examples" for their descriptions, and, 2) sometimes meaning/correctness/accuracy becomes lost in translation. The lesson being, nihonto study requires seeing/studying classic nihonto examples, and, secondly, keep an open mind about what you're reading.

 

Is there a book or source (maybe that i don't have) that is more correct than others?

 

Strongly suggest cross-referencing at least 3 different sources for any one piece of information for correctness, especially when using translated material. Yamanaka's Newsletters revised is a favorite.

 

What makes a hada "running"

 

Typically, there may be one form of hada that will be predominant, like mokume, with another form of hada, like masame, "running" (flowing) through it.

[Eric H]

Have a look at this:

 

http://www.nihontoantiques.com/sword%20details.htm

 

Eric

[Jean]

http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_jigane.html

http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_jigane_vari.html

http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_jig ... araki.html

http://www.nihontocraft.com/nihonto_nie_nioi.html

[Guido]

The only Hada I know of that is called "nagareru" if it's running (and that's what it means in Japanese, running like for instance water) is Itame and / or Masame, depending on the point of view. To sum this up:

[Rich Thomas]

Thanks all gents, very much appreciated. Beautifully summed up Guido.

 

Yamanaka's Newsletters revised is a favorite.

Does anyone know were I can get hold of these/this???

 

cheers

Rich T2

[Jean]

http://www.ncjsc.org/ncjsc_publications.htm

[Alan Morton]

Rich, bring juyo red wine and you may view original 3 volumes next time you visit

 

Alan .