Type 98, likely with older blade

[GeorgeLuucas]

I recently acquired this blade in Type 98 Gunto koshirae. Seems to be out of polish but in decent condition, the tsuka has some damage. The previous menuki had been nearly pulverized, so I replaced it with a section of chopstick for the short-term. I also added the tassel. Otherwise this is as-found 

Shinogi Zukuri

Mumei

Hamon: Notare

Sori: Torisori

Mune: Iorimune

file marks: Kiri?

nakagojiri: kurijiri

boshi: notare komi?

 

Nagasa: 60.3cm (23.74 in)

total length: 75.5cm (29.7 in)

sori: 2cm (0.787 in) 

Motohaba: 28.5mm

Sakihaba: 20mm

motokasane: 6.3mm

sakikasane: 4.7mm

Kissaki: 31.9mm

 

I’ve got a low budget, and a thing for mumei over gimei. I enjoy the more dramatic Sori than my other swords. I also love the ww2 koshirae, and have always wanted a sword in gunto fittings. 
 

I believe the blade to be suriage and probably koto. trying to get good shots of the hada but it’s hard to see and my photography skills and equipment are still greatly lacking. 
 

Sharing for opinions, and discussion - to learn what I can from my new sword. I would love a closer estimate on its possible age 
 

Also, the sarute is a fairly simple metal band. Could I hypothetically purchase a more decorative gunto sarute and replace it? Or is that probably not worth it? 

more photos in additional comments* 
Thanks for reading,

Cheers,

-Sam

[GeorgeLuucas]

[GeorgeLuucas]

[GeorgeLuucas]

[Alex A]

Perhaps Sue Bizen

[Rivkin]

Late Muromachi (short nakago, yasurime is basically straight, not sugu boshi, sugata etc.), hard to come up with school as polish is very heavy on hadori and sugu-notare hamon is not too distinctive. I would say Mino since later generations did do wide sugu-notare, though I can't see masame in shinogi-ji so might be someone provincial instead.

[GeorgeLuucas]

13 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

Late Muromachi (short nakago, yasurime is basically straight, not sugu boshi, sugata etc.), hard to come up with school as polish is very heavy on hadori and sugu-notare hamon is not too distinctive. I would say Mino since later generations did do wide sugu-notare, though I can't see masame in shinogi-ji so might be someone provincial instead.

Thank you for your input! On this post, and my others. I’ve learned a lot following the leads you’ve given me 

 

The heavy hadori is unfortunate, and makes some detail hard to see

 

And thank you @Alex A! Bizen was my first thought and I’m still leaning that way a bit

 

thanks to you both! 
cheers,

-Sam 

[Alex A]

Your welcome Sam.

 

Did consider Mino as Kirill pointed out but lack of Masame swayed me. Also, considered the Yasurime.

 

Just went with what it reminded me of, best guess lol

[GeorgeLuucas]

45 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Your welcome Sam.

 

Did consider Mino as Kirill pointed out but lack of Masame swayed me. Also, considered the Yasurime.

 

Just went with what it reminded me of, best guess lol

A best guess is a great start and all that I ask! I appreciate the input 

 

Right or wrong, every guess gets my nose into my books, and comparing features to the blade

 

Starting with input and opinions from y’all helps me narrow my search and encourages my interest. It all helps me learn! 
 

Thanks again,

-Sam 

[GeorgeLuucas]

Got some good sunlight photos during this rare sunny October day

 

Cheers,

-Sam

 

[Ooitame]

I would venture Shinto Bizen.

[Shugyosha]

I think older than shinto and the colour of the steel in the last photos says Mino to me. That said, I was with Alex on Sue Bizen until I saw those. 

[ROKUJURO]

It does not look SURIAGE/O-SURIAGE to me. Technically, it would be seen as WAKIZASHI in today's papers, but was probably used as UCHI-GATANA or KATATE-UCHI (or similar), depending on era.

[GeorgeLuucas]

Thank you both! I also suspect it to be older than Shinto - just because the patina and shape feel much different than my Shinto mino katana. But that’s just my very novice observation  

 

That last photos are 100% natural sunlight, so that blue hue is hopefully a representation of steel color. That’s so hard to capture, but it does appear to have a blueish look to it 

 

Thank you!

-Sam

[GeorgeLuucas]

11 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

It does not look SURIAGE/O-SURIAGE to me. Technically, it would be seen as WAKIZASHI in today's papers, but was probably used as UCHI-GATANA or KATATE-UCHI (or similar), depending on era.

That’s true! I guess it technically is a wakizashi. It “feels” very much like a katana with all the type 98 mounts, but the blade measures just under 24 inches 
 

Do you think it’s ubu? I thought suriage because the hamon runs into the nakago patina. I know that’s not always the best identifier though

 

Thanks for pointing that out! 
cheers,

-Sam 

 

 

[Alex A]

19 hours ago, GeorgeLuucas said:

 

 

That last photos are 100% natural sunlight, so that blue hue is hopefully a representation of steel color. That’s so hard to capture, but it does appear to have a blueish look to it 

 

Thank you!

-Sam

 

Just reading that, a blueish look to the steel doesn't remind me of Sue Mino

 

From Connoisseurs. "the colour is black without being blueish black"

 

Added a pic of one of my swords, Mino.   In sunlight its obvious dull black, next to another blade stands out as black, no blue. 

 

Crap at photography but hope it shows.

[GeorgeLuucas]

@Alex A Interesting! Thank you for that! 

I'll have to investigate my sword a bit more, and maybe compare it to my Yamato koto blade in the sun - to maybe get a better idea of the steel color. Now i'm beginning to wonder if that blue hue is a reflection of the blue sky... 

Anyway, thank you again! Ya'll have given me a lot to look into! Just comparing the sword between Sue-Bizen and Mino has been informative and helpful 

Next I'll investigate the koshirae a bit. I'd like to freshen up my knowledge on WW2 sword fittings! 

Cheers, ya'll have been a big help as always
-Sam



 

[Alex A]

Just thinking out loud Sam, observations. 

 

We all learning.

 

Always exceptions to the rules rules and all that.

[Ooitame]

23 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

I think older than shinto and the colour of the steel in the last photos says Mino to me. That said, I was with Alex on Sue Bizen until I saw those. 

Early shinto bizen, is what I wanted to say. Either way, nice blade maybe a new polish will reveal more.