I bought a Tachi. 'Hogen-era' says the Sayagaki. 'Ko-Naminohira' only says the Tokubetsu Hozen paper. Is it late Heian - or (early, mid, late) Kamakura

[Saint-Just]

3 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

 Museums attract top griffters for a plethora of reasons, much like churches and any NPO. Did they take you out to dinner yet?  There is one born every minute and two on Sundays, 

Yes, Baba Yaga, they take me out for lunch and diner twice a year. And then we have the Summer Garden Party et cetera. But I am very much at home at the Rijksmuseum, the national museum of the Netherlands, since I was a toddler. My great great great grandparents were at the cradle of the (later) Rijksmuseum, when they sold their The Hague home to the Prince of Orange in 1771 (for 15.000 guilders). The Prince of Orange started his Painting Gallery there the year after, from out of which the Rijksmuseum originated. So to me, the Rijks is a natural heir.

[Rivkin]

As always discussion moves towards irrelevant things.

Are there Heian Naminohira - if you believe Edo period's publications the answer is yes. 

If you believe in comparing to blades for which the dating is somewhat known, then the question is whether the early Naminohira appears more ancient compared to Bungo Yukihira. My personal impression is they appear to be of roughly similar age, and Yukihira is known as early Kamakura smith, so its unlikely Naminohira is older by 200 years.

The question for this blade is whether it has appearance similar to the earliest Naminohira, and the answer is difficult. The overall shape appears somewhat different, kissaki proportions are a bit different as well, especially taking into account its a relatively wide blade...

Maybe there is mizukage or yaki-otoshi or something else. We don't know and its all very theoretical.

 

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I see Markus and Michael have given awesome insight and hopefully you can get together with Michael in Amsterdam

 

I do think your sword is Kamakura period and not later than that, when during Kamakura it was made, that I unfortunately cant say. It might have been bit unclear in my first message, as I was just pointing out that Ko-Naminohira as an attribution spans for a long time, from Late Heian period to Nanbokuchō. And I do believe majority of surviving Ko-Naminohira works are from c. Late Kamakura. There are many where just Kamakura is mentioned and for me personally accurate dating would be impossible. I am just lucky to have collected lots of books, and I have had fascination for Naminohira school, so I have good references.

 

Here are 7 swords as reference that are among the earliest Naminohira school works.

 

1. Tachi by Yukimasa (行正) dated 1159 (this is earliest date on tang on a Japanese sword I have found so far), Jūyō Bijutsuhin

 

 

2. Tachi by Yukiyasu (行安), Jūyō Bunkazai in the collection of Sanage jinja (Late Heian - Early Kamakura)

 

 

3. Tachi by Yukiyasu (行安), Jūyō Bunkazai in the collection of Kyoto National Museum (Late Heian - Early Kamakura), Michael posted this Sasanuki earlier

 

 

4. Tachi by Yukiyasu (行安), Tokubetsu Jūyō 8, (Early Kamakura)

 

 

5. Ko-Naminohira Tachi, Jūyō 42 (Early Kamakura) (Michael posted this earlier, I did not know there has been mei discovery on this as I don't yet have all the Jūyō books)

 

 

6. Ko-Naminohira Tachi, Jūyō 19 (Early Kamakura)

 

 

7. Ko-Naminohira Tachi, Tokubetsu Hozon, Tanobe Sayagaki (Early Kamakura is mentioned in sayagaki) This was wonderful item and I really hoped I could have gotten this one years ago when it was sold.

 

https://www.aoijapan...mei-ko-naminohira-2/

 

Here are comparison stats for above items, and I will put your sword as Y in the list

Sword - Length - Curvature - Width at base - Width at tip - Tang length

1. 82,3 cm - 3,0 cm - 3,0 cm - 1,8 cm - 20,5 cm

2. 70,9 cm - 3,0 cm - 2,9 cm - 1,6 cm - 17,7 cm

3. 73,4 cm - 2,4 cm - 3,0 cm - 1,8 cm - 23,6 cm

4. 75,1 cm - 2,4 cm - 2,8 cm - 1,4 cm - 19,5 cm

5. 81,1 cm - 2,2 cm - 2,9 cm - 1,3 cm - 19,2 cm

6. 77,2 cm - 2,6 cm - 2,9 cm - 1,6 cm - 19,8 cm

7. 87,8 cm - 2,6 cm - 3,1 cm - 2,1 cm - XX

Y 77,2 cm - 2,1 cm - 3,2 cm - 1,7 cm - 22,0 cm

[Saint-Just]

Thank JUSSI EKHOLM   So you're back home :-)   Thank you for all your information. Michael was here this afternoon for a few hours - and he liked the sword very much. It may be late Heian, it may be early Kamakura. It has the low 'hip' of those periodes and some other characteristics. It is judged by National Treasure mr Nisshu - who seems do value it 'National Cultural Property'  I now am exhausted - all that new information etc- but I will ask Markus to have a good look at the sayagaki. More from me soon.  Warm regards, robert

[cju777]

Just,

 

As a comparison for you to compare against. Below is a photo of a signed Naminohira tachi attributed to late Kamakura, Bunpo era. Just to see how things change from early to late in shape. 
 

[Saint-Just]

On 9/29/2023 at 11:01 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

Congratulations on a fine sword. I remember eyeing at the Japanese dealer but it was way above my level of collecting.

 

I do have it saved as Kamakura period work in my files. Unfortunately I am not a home during this weekend so I don't have access to all of my data. Ko-Naminohira attribution spans from late Heian into late Nanbokucho period. Late Heian - early Kamakura Ko-Naminohira work is very rare (as so early swords usually are). The Japanese dealer who had it online is often quite optimistic in age attributions.

 

Also I believe the sayagaki would be by Honami Nisshū (本阿弥日洲) and to me the date would be Heisei 2 (平成二) 1990. I am bit curious who told 1952 to you? I am not well versed in Nisshū sayagaki but I would compare it to other examples.

 

You do have very nice tachi and I hope you will enjoy it. I can write better post next week when I am at home. I have c. 100 Ko-Naminohira swords recorded so I think I can dig up few similarish ones.

 

[Saint-Just]

oeps... i oversaw an earlier message.. sorry

[stackinnutts]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:37 PM, Grey Doffin said:

Hi Robert,

Donating your swords to a museum that has little or no interest in Nihonto is a great way to destroy them. Unless the museum has a department that is likely to put them on display, odds are good the swords will sit in a drawer in the basement and slowly rust away to nothing. Please reconsider; your sword are much safer with a knowledgeable collector.

Grey

 

Take heed in Grey's warning; once your dead they'll just deaccession your donation for something they consider 'more important' to their collecting habits (and/or taste); happened to a friend of my mine years ago.