Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 Being no expert in the field of WW2 Japanese swords, I must say that I am unsure as to the quality of the blade I am posting - the kissaki, in particular, looks a bit off to me. Could you tell me whether there would be the slightest chance for this blade to have been at least partially traditionally made? The seller thinks the blade might have been water quenched but a seller being a seller, he will invariably tell you what to you want to hear from him. Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 Here are some more photos. Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 Would it be possible to take a picture of the nakago aka tang would help in determining where it was made, and maybe when. I am no expert but in my opinion it is partially traditionally made ,maybe oil quenched.but lacks a yakote. John S. 1 Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 The sword does have a Seki stamp on the nakago, which would point to a mere showato, but I'd like the blade to be judged on its own merits: do you think it is of any interest or is it yet another mass produced gunto blade? The seller told me it had been shipped from Japan with an export permit, but I suppose that does not mean per se that the sword is something out of the ordinary. Is the lack of yakote a flaw or do you think the kissaki was meant to look like this? Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 Looks to have been polished off years ago.the kissaki resembles a Takayama- to late war were thicker but not like first design. Not a flaw just well worn. 1 Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 You have a very keen eye, and a wealth of knowledge, I think. I told the seller I wouldn't disclose the name of the swordsmith so that, if the gunto is not deemed to be of good manufacture, the news won't hurt the value of the sword he is selling, but, according to what I have read on the forum (https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/10331-takayama-to/), the sword does have something to do with takayama-to, although it was not signed by him. Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, Jcstroud said: Looks to have been polished off years ago.the kissaki resembles a Takayama- to late war were thicker but not like first design. Not a flaw just well worn. Do you mean by that it is still in its "original" (WW2) polish? I have often wondered what an original WW2 Seki factory polish would have looked like right out of the Seki arsenal (I do not imply that this one looks like that). Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 Likely not original polish does it have an ubu-ha Aka unsharpened area near the habaki? This was I have been told a combat feature,as well as a indication of "as made condition"The Seki stamp is an indication of a mass produced non- traditionally made as you know.I think the "Elders" cold tell you more..... 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 The swordsmiths known to have made Takayama-to were Kazuichi Hattori aka Masahiro Ishihara Masanao Shinoda Ujifusa and Miwa Ujinaga that I know of. 1 Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jcstroud said: The swordsmiths known to have made Takayama-to were Kazuichi Hattori aka Masahiro Ishihara Masanao Shinoda Ujifusa and Miwa Ujinaga that I know of. Were they all the students of one master swordsmith? Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 The swordsmiths known to have made Takayama-to were Kazuichi Hattori aka Masahiro Ishihara Masanao Shinoda Ujifusa and Miwa Ujinaga that I know of.Frankly any dealer that will not tell you the name of the swordsmith is a deceptionist. Use caution Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Yukihiro said: Were they all the students of one master swordsmith? Takayama Masakichi set up the forge known as Takayama there he instructed the swordsmiths at Seki how he wanted them built,and Masahiro was in charge of the forge with Masanao at his side according to what I have read. 1 Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 19 minutes ago, Jcstroud said: The swordsmiths known to have made Takayama-to were Kazuichi Hattori aka Masahiro Ishihara Masanao Shinoda Ujifusa and Miwa Ujinaga that I know of.Frankly any dealer that will not tell you the name of the swordsmith is a deceptionist. Use caution He did tell me the name of the swordsmith but my point is primarily to ascertain the intrinsic value of the blade without hurting its commercial value as the seller gave me liberty to use his photos. The metal used to forge it was not tamahagane, that is for sure, but knowing whether it has at least some traits that set it apart from the bulk of gunto production would help me decide whether it is worth buying or not. Quote
ROKUJURO Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 Didier, the photos and the condition of the blade (which seems to have been sandpapered) do not allow to make a safe assessment, but I do not see a typical oil-quenched HAMON. This blade has to be seen in-hand by an expert, I think. 2 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 I agree with @ROKUJURO He is more experienced. With the Seki stamp a han-tan is a possibility. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 A curiosity...was the swordsmith one of those I had previously listed? Is the koshirai army or navy? Now I am curious..... Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 It's Navy and apparently original to the blade. Is a han-tan-to a blade that is partly hand made and traditional? I'm afraid the blade will never be held by an expert if I buy it and I know polishing it would far exceed what I can afford. Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 Navy koshirai with a seki stamp kinda weird.The IJN did not have a good opinion of army gunto after the Manchurian incident.afterwards went about creating the Bujin To or warrior sword by Navy engineers Masayoshi aka Takayama Masakiichi being one. Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 28, 2023 Author Report Posted September 28, 2023 I was also skeptical of the sword being a Navy one, but the nakago apparently fits tightly in the tsuka with no wobble whatsoever. Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 28, 2023 Report Posted September 28, 2023 I would investigate it well,considering the condition including restoration expenses,shipping etc. P.s. was the swordsmith one of the ones I mentioned? Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Posted September 29, 2023 He might well be one of those you mentioned. Shipping is not the problem - restoring the blade is, as I don't think I will ever be able to afford that expense. Now the question is to know whether the blade is worth buying and keeping as it is. 1 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted September 29, 2023 Report Posted September 29, 2023 Didier, it all depends on what you want to collect. If it is military KOSHIRAE, then it might be o.k. - you know the price and can decide. If the blade is more in the focus, then there is not much to enjoy right now. And if you will not be able to have it polished, it will remain in this state; just a dream in steel! 1 1 Quote
Yukihiro Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Posted September 29, 2023 Yes, you are right: owning a blade that is not visually satisfying can be quite frustrating. As regards the koshirae, it is nothing to write home about either, so I think buying it would be a mistake. Thank you all for all the information provided and for your opinions. Best regards, Didier 2 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 29, 2023 Report Posted September 29, 2023 Just a note to clarify - I have seen several kaigunto with Seki stamped blades. It is not the "norm", but not unusual. It is my opinion that blades with the large Seki stamp tend to be higher quality showato. Not trying to persuade, just adding to the earlier discussion. 2 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.