JUYO Token Tachi - Need help and advice

[Baba Yaga]

The Japanese markets in general is way-way down, thus the sword market. If buyers want to pay top dollar for a sword that's their problem. 

If a seller wants to hold onto swords which hasn't appreciated for the last 20 years, that's their problem. 

I see opportunity and not problems.  

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think Thomas makes a good point that sometimes prices can fluctuate a lot between different dealers. Of course we do not know stuff going on behind the scenes but sometimes swords do pop up for sale at different dealers with different price tags, there can be increase or decrease on price. Sometimes koshirae is added or removed etc. However most common is just the same sword with same koshirae if it has one. Lots of interesting stuff happening there.

 

Often when a dealer has really good price the item will go very fast. While I think in general Samurai Museum is among more expensive shops I can concur the experience Thomas had, sometimes item they had for a good price ends up listed with higher price at another dealer. Of course that also happens the other way around too.

 

I have not yet met Mike Yamasaki but I believe he has excellent reputation worldwide and I could recommend contacting him if looking for good swords. Another person in the US might be Fred Weissberg: https://nihonto.com/ They are premium dealers so not on the cheap side but you'll get luxury of great knowledge and excellent wares topped with stellar reputation. For such an expensive purchase I think it will be important to find the sword that feels right.

[Rivkin]

It depends on the budget. 

In the best case the strategy is to simply walkin to Sokendo shop, give an attendant a list of what you want to see, tell him you have a budget ready and ask if Kurokawa san can show you the blades.

He has an encyclopedic collection so you will see a really good Unshu if you want.

Basically if you are in Japan and comfortable buying there (no returns, in most cases incomplete disclosures and some chance of outright lies), you should buy there. 

If you want moneyback or some other conditions, US is an option, but aside from sword shows its going to be more expensive.

[sabiji]

18 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

The Japanese markets in general is way-way down, thus the sword market. If buyers want to pay top dollar for a sword that's their problem. 

If a seller wants to hold onto swords which hasn't appreciated for the last 20 years, that's their problem. 

I see opportunity and not problems.  

Really? I don't think that the sword market is declining. On the contrary, it is growing and growing, and adapting to the times and opening up more and more to the foreign market with English language websites. The Samurai Museum is the example of this.

I think we've become quite spoiled by now. 20 years ago, buying in Japan was an adventure, communication was very rudimentary, paying was really exciting, and there was no tracking. Only customs was easier, at least in my cases.

Back then, if you were looking for a sword of a certain school, you would get one, rarely two offers with a price that said buy it or leave it. 

Today, with a little research, you have a wide choice. Pure luxury. Also the service has become much better, swords polished, swords to Shinsa, experts can ask, literature, sword forums, etc..

Yes, this brings opportunities, but also problems. Chances to find with a little patience exactly what meets the own demand and budget. But also the problem to bring something on the market, which does not get the desired attention and the once invested amount is halfway recovered, because interested parties have a wider choice.

Where real quality always finds a corresponding customer.

[Gakusee]

16 hours ago, Rivkin said:

It depends on the budget. 

In the best case the strategy is to simply walkin to Sokendo shop, give an attendant a list of what you want to see, tell him you have a budget ready and ask if Kurokawa san can show you the blades.

He has an encyclopedic collection so you will see a really good Unshu if you want.

Basically if you are in Japan and comfortable buying there (no returns, in most cases incomplete disclosures and some chance of outright lies), you should buy there. 

If you want moneyback or some other conditions, US is an option, but aside from sword shows its going to be more expensive.

Mostly agree. However, want to flag that you can return items if you want to but will have to swallow a 30% - 40% reduction in the price you have paid.  It is simple mathematics to get the dealer to recover them to the previous position (where they bought at previously to sell to you)

[Baba Yaga]

5 hours ago, sabiji said:

Really? I don't think that the sword market is declining. On the contrary,

Don't enter into any math, or economic contests. It started in 2011, but don't tell anyone. It's a secret that even AOI admits too. 

[Jon]

On 9/11/2023 at 7:19 AM, History_Geek said:

Yes I have a lot of learning to do. I ordered some books to start reading and researching on. 

As a person who is only 2 years into his Nihonto collecting my suggestion would be study the books and then buy a nice blade in Polish at a lower price point..using this as a study piece then moving along. You can get a very nice papered blade in Polish for 3-5000 …better to have a number of blades to learn from and rotate in and out your collection than one trophy piece that your knowledge is so far behind that you cannot really appreciate what your the custodian of. My first blade cost me £2000 and it’s loved and cherished…i have a total of 5 blades in polish with papers at present..2 I plan to keep the others will be moved on when I’ve fully studied them….on  the other hand if I had spent the cost of a mustang or Jaguar on my first sword I’m not sure I would have the same attachment. One day I will buy that perfect sword as the centre of my collection …but not for a good number of years until I can fully appreciate it and know what my perfect sword is.

 

as for investing…. From what I have seen you’re not going to be making money from that level of sword you have purchased from a higher end dealer…the market is not really an investment market. Once you know what to look for maybe getting lucking in an auction maybe…..but any antique or collectible is alway a gamble if your investing ( I’m a coin collector and dealer and even with years of knowledge,  sometimes  I have to a accept  a loss of money on a piece…..I’f no one wants the piece you’ve got to hold onto it or loss money…and collectible/antiques/arts a funny market….)