When I moved to Japan, I thought I was leaving all the obvious fakes and oddities behind. How naive.

[Guest Simon R]

Wading through the Japanese auction sites is almost as dispiriting as evilBay nowadays.

 

For example.....

 

Mr. "Cut 'em out an' spray 'em black" is back with some more of his mild steel masterworks!

https://page.auction.../auction/s1088978334

 

 

Subtle Sekigane may be needed to make this antique fit your nakago:

https://page.auction.../auction/x1092684732

 

Mr. Wong, purveyor of fine and genuine 'antiquey Japanesey'

cast tsuba, presents: 

https://jp.mercari.com/item/m29119278937

[Brian]

When I was there...and that was many years ago...the flea markets were FULL of fake Chinese tsuba. I found it very sad indeed.

[Guest Simon R]

21 minutes ago, Brian said:

When I was there...and that was many years ago...the flea markets were FULL of fake Chinese tsuba. I found it very sad indeed.

I remember taking you around the market at the Yasukuni Jinja.

[Brian]

Yeah, that was an amazing day. Enjoyed every second of it...even if my feet completely and literally gave in that day. Still have permanent nerve and feet damage from that trip. So sad to hear the Yasukuni market closed down. Was my favorite.

[Yves]

The whole world is fake nowadays. 

[Ford Hallam]

Actually, Yves

 

no matter how you define it the whole world today is absolutely not fake.

 

You insult a huge swathe of hard working people who have sacrificed money and security in the pursuit of their craft and art.  Their integrity and their pursuit of real meaning in their work often being all that sustains them. And here I  include crafts-people, artists, musicians, poets, writers, dancers.......chefs, film makers.....where to end, the world is brimming with the awesome energy of individual people's truth.  If all you perceive is fake perhaps the problem lies closer to home.

 

If a person is completely ignorant of a subject, and is in some cases further handicapped by a false sense of expertise or 'experience' , and they then learn latterly that they've been taken advantage of in buying worthless rubbish, the fault lies with them.

As the old saying goes, "a fool and his money are soon parted."

 

There have always been fakes. If you're looking for bargains on-line, before buying books and at least trying to gain a little education then, you'll be soon parted from your money. 

 

 

 

 

[Baba Yaga]

32 minutes ago, Ford Hallam said:

 

 

no matter how you define it the whole world today is absolutely not fake.

 

You insult a huge swathe of hard working people who have sacrificed money and security in the pursuit of their craft and art.  Their integrity and their pursuit of real meaning in their work often being all that sustains them. And here I  include crafts-people, artists, musicians, poets, writers, dancers.......chefs, film makers.....where to end, the world is brimming with the awesome energy of individual people's truth.  If all you perceive is fake perhaps the problem lies closer to home.

 

If a person is completely ignorant of a subject, and is in some cases further handicapped by a false sense of expertise or 'experience' , and they then learn latterly that they've been taken advantage of in buying worthless rubbish, the fault lies with them.

As the old saying goes, "a fool and his money are soon parted."

 

 

 

 

 

You're right, all the people who bave caused me harm all my life ahould be forgiven. Love, hugs and kisses for everyone....... Sarcasm

[Spartancrest]

3 hours ago, Ford Hallam said:

you'll be soon parted from your money. 

Especially if you invest in getting a book published and it never eventuates. Fools indeed!

[Yves]

7 hours ago, Ford Hallam said:

Actually, Yves

 

no matter how you define it the whole world today is absolutely not fake.

 

You insult a huge swathe of hard working people who have sacrificed money and security in the pursuit of their craft and art.  Their integrity and their pursuit of real meaning in their work often being all that sustains them. And here I  include crafts-people, artists, musicians, poets, writers, dancers.......chefs, film makers.....where to end, the world is brimming with the awesome energy of individual people's truth.  If all you perceive is fake perhaps the problem lies closer to home.

 

If a person is completely ignorant of a subject, and is in some cases further handicapped by a false sense of expertise or 'experience' , and they then learn latterly that they've been taken advantage of in buying worthless rubbish, the fault lies with them.

As the old saying goes, "a fool and his money are soon parted."

 

There have always been fakes. If you're looking for bargains on-line, before buying books and at least trying to gain a little education then, you'll be soon parted from your money. 

 

 

 

 

Was responding on a more general level BTW. 

[Steves87]

I get the general premise of what you are saying, in terms of the cast fakes and modern replicas.

We got to remember though, we collectors here are actually quite the minority when it comes to the world of "Tsuba".

The Kenjutsu/Iaido scene is huge worldwide and reaches far beyond us (definitely in my neck of the woods). These cast/modern repro items on online auction sites are a considerably larger market than the authentic antique/contemporary Tsuba market, and are really concentrated on the kenjutsu/Iaido world. Like I have said in other threads, people like to mod their iaito and Tamashigiri blades, and I have modded literally hundreds throughout the years. Unfortunately, the antique noobs (and some intermediates) get caught between the markets.

Yes there is some blatant deception, but I would also say there is equal part from sellers just having "no clue".

 

 

[Yves]

Let me put it like this: when you see the same type of (papered) tsuba for sale in several places (even high end ones) you start wondering which ones are real and which ones are not.
Anyway, it made me not buy for collectional reasons but purely on the basis of what I like and if the price is in that sweet spot or I can see on the basis of the level of detail it is real.
I also stick to the general rule: if it is too good to be true it usually is.

Now, another hobby of mike is classic cars. Loads of crap  parts for sale being sold as the real mccoy. I used to work my way around that by applying the rule mentioned above. The fakers caught on and have increased their prices accordingly to just a tad below that of the real deal…

So, a lot of research has to be done to find out if you’re looking at a fake or not

 

Lastly, in my line of business I have to work with real experts in certain areas and when you seevthem struggling, you know that something definitely is not ok.

 

Anyway, this is not related to a specific country that only has that sort of problem but rather the entire world. However, it is very clear that the rise of ‘fake’ happened at the same time China was rising as an economical power.

[Steves87]

13 hours ago, Yves said:

Let me put it like this: when you see the same type of (papered) tsuba for sale in several places (even high end ones) you start wondering which ones are real and which ones are not.

You are not wrong, but like I said before, there is some obvious deception out there; additionally, I know of examples for this right now, and especially on theebay.... the same papered (or not) guard on multiple sellers sites.

This is usually a case of 3rd party selling... someone has access to it cheap, and advertises it at a higher price elsewhere. If you buy it, the 3rd party seller purchases it from their primary source, and sends it to you, all the while, pocketing the difference in coin. Im sure there are even unwitting 4th party sellers too.

I have mostly proven this theory from taking a punt and purchasing from the lowest offering ad, I know I shouldn't support this, but there are lots of "factors" involved For me personally. Sometimes the sellers are caught out by not realising the primary ad is finished, but they have always reimbursed the money instantly (as I think this 3rd partying goes against auction site policies). Ultimately, the majority of the guards will exist for sale somewhere, it is just a matter of who is the primary seller, and if "they" aren't, then where is it advertised cheaper?

This is a completely different kettle of fish to cast guards, and only similar when concerned with blatant deception element.... like advertising a casting as an original.