Unusual Wakizashi point

[Koltira]

Found this thing on Samurai Museum Shop instagram (https://www.instagram.com/p/ClqgjdZtOOb/)

The point of this waki is of some unusual shape. I've never seen something similar before.

Has anyone seen something similar? Maybe someone knows how this kind of points are called? 

 

[Rivkin]

I don't know but I can theorize. Its not satsuma suriage but in shinshinto all foreign and weird things were quite popular. Often the problem dealing with local Japanese experts is they want copies of European hussar blades, smallswords, turkish sabers etc. etc. to date from Momoyama and be connected to one of the famous Daimyo, why in reality the vast majority of such copies were made in 1800s. And many are not copies but actual foreign objects.

 

P.S. And maybe its some rare ikebana ninja sword for cutting lotus flowers I just don't know much about.

[Stephen]

I don't do IG

Would  you kindly provide another link.

[Koltira]

55 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I don't do IG

Would  you kindly provide another link.

They don't have it on their website. They are deleting pages of sold items it seems
Here I downloaded the original image from IG page source and copied their description: 

 

"Hello, world! Thank you for checking our daily post. We are excited to show you another newly acquired Wakizashi.

This blade signed by Kouto Jyu Jyumyo (皇都住寿命) during SHIN SHIN TO era (late Edo Period: Late 18th-Mid 19th century) according to NBTHK’s appraisal. Kouto is literally translated as a city of the emperor. Back then, the emperor of Japan resided in Kyoto. Therefore, Kouto Jyu means that he lived in Kyoto city when he forged this blade. Kyoto city is located in Yamashiro province. He belonged to Jyumyo School.

This blade is appraised as a Tokubetsu Hozon Token(特別保存刀剣) issued by NBTHK(Nihon Bijutsu Touken Hozon Kyokai:日本美術刀剣保存協会). This authentication paper was only given to authentic Japanese swords, especially well preserved and high quality with artistic value."

I've also found the same post on their Facebook:
https://www.facebook...BHfFPyvFDn11ae7Quzcl

Hope that helps 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think we might have discussed this or similar item in the past on the forum if I remember correctly.

 

You can see the item is currently offered by European seller Kyodai Originals in auction: https://www.catawiki...pan-education-period

 

It is often the case that when dealers acquire swords then the older seller removes the listing. Some swords have switched owners many times and information about shops that owned the item is often lost. There are some geeks like myself who tracks old Kotō swords, sometimes it is interesting that there can be 200% price increase, koshirae appears with the item etc.

[Koltira]

9 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

I think we might have discussed this or similar item in the past on the forum if I remember correctly.

 

You can see the item is currently offered by European seller Kyodai Originals in auction: https://www.catawiki...pan-education-period

 

It is often the case that when dealers acquire swords then the older seller removes the listing. Some swords have switched owners many times and information about shops that owned the item is often lost. There are some geeks like myself who tracks old Kotō swords, sometimes it is interesting that there can be 200% price increase, koshirae appears with the item etc.

Ah, thanks! This auction has much more pictures 
I was just confused by this kind of "unique" kissaki looks. Wanted to know a little bit more about it. And statement in first comment seems really logical since its indeed one of the later nihontos 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think items like this fall into extremely rare curiosity category. I used my tracking skills and it seems like Samurai Museum had it listed for 9,126$ in december 2022. They are actually often having quite large profit margin added on items that have been at Yahoo JP and then came to their site, so I would assume they have large profit margin on every item. To me it seems their site is geared towards international buyers. Of course it is business and they have to make a profit. However just wanted to mention this if a sword is acquired from dealer who already has large margin in original price and new dealer adds on his/hers margin, then the item can get bit inflated. Yet in the end items are worth what someone is willing to spend for it, and there are different valuations depending on what people focus on.

[Stephen]

Thank you both

[Baba Yaga]

Going way-way back, think we came up with a one off Navey rope cutter. 

[Jon]

I’m trying to decide if I find this an bit ugly or really interesting or just maybe both at the same time. Most swords and Japanese blades in particular have an aesthetic and shape that feels right….they are profoundly well designed tools of war and that always has created something that feels and looks right   …from a sax to a rapier they all have something….even the profoundly oddly weighted cabbage cutter is an interesting sword to hold…this does not seem to have that at all, very strange thing indeed ( maybe it’s some form of experimental kitchen knife perhaps….)..I think the only odder sword i can think of would be a ngulu and that was never intended for combat ( just executions)….

[vajo]

I like that falchion styled shape. Nice piece.

[Jon]

13 hours ago, vajo said:

I like that falchion styled shape

Falchions are really interesting swords, lots of brilliant academic debate around Falchions…they are probably just about the rarest style of sword in existence…they were made over around a 400-500 year period ( Middle Ages)  but there are only around 20 ( maybe as low as 12….it’s a bit of a debated subject) authentic blades in existence…it seems that although they were ubiquitous in medieval art they were infact almost never used or produced, it’s simply not credible for so few to have survived if it was a widely produced sword. 
 

 They are really stunning blades…but hard to find and you’re only ever going to see them behind glass.  

 

There are two it’s possible to view in the UK: the Thorpe Falchion in Norwich castle ( 1320 blade) is the best…it’s not a very big blade ( blade is 31.5 ish inches from memory)…it spent a few hundred years under water…but it’s still amazing to see. 

 

The surviving swords are all generally very light weight weapons indeed…with one having a spine of only 1.2 mm. although single edge the back edge would have generally been sharpened at the tip…they were very much slashing weapons used against mainly cloth armoured opponents ..they had that super cutting shape that’s useless against metal armour types and does not like bone much….it did not  seem to have the same level of longevity or ubiquity as the back sword ( which was easer and cheaper to make) and was essentially superseded by the sabre ( which essentially has the same purpose with a slightly less interesting blade shape).

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

A British sword maker by the name of Henry Osborn tried to revive the "falchion style" point in his cavalry swords of the late 1700's early 1800's, but his idea never really caught on. Here are some examples of his work.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Jon]

Cheers Bryce, interesting Thankyou…I really like the top blade it does capture that falchion style really well.

[2devnul]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:05 AM, Rivkin said:

P.S. And maybe its some rare ikebana ninja sword for cutting lotus flowers I just don't know much about.

Definitely! 

 

I do think this blade was an experiment, something that was seen on European blades and an idea if we can adapt. Like with Nanban armor. Although armor was successful, this sword wasn't. 

 

Personally, I don't like it. For me any strange variation of Japanese blades reminds all these tactical-zombie-military-katanas for Walmart-Ninjas. 

[Rivkin]

The shape is common in some traditions depicting "ancient" daggers. 19th century influence.

[David E]

Wow, that’s a really odd wakizashi, I kind of like it just because of how different it is, feels like some sort of prototype that went nowhere, neat piece of history