"puzzling" mystery motif that stays consistent - any guesses as to what it's depicting?

[GRC]

I always get the impression of puzzle pieces with this motif... hence the title of the thread

It's obviously not puzzle pieces though.

 

Is it something as simple as a steaming kettle with a lid? The kettle being the large sukashi on the left, and everything else is smoke and haze?

The fact that the design is so highly conserved from different makers, makes me wonder if we have another case of some famous Ukiyoe print getting copied onto tsuba designs...

 

I'm hoping someone has seen a reference to what this represents.

 

[Matsunoki]

??heavily stylised sukashi kanji??

…..those sharp geometric features seem to melt away

 

 

[Teimei]

Mist?

[Bugyotsuji]

What does this mean? “highly conserved from different makers“

The second (newer?) tsuba seems to imitate the first.

[BIG]

Hi Glen,

 

“a BIG bird in its nest..“

 

Best

[GRC]

I meant "highly conserved" in that the motif is very similarly executed by both smiths, with only the slightest of variations.

I have also seen it on a third tsuba in the past, but lost track of that one before saving the image.

 

When a design is repeated fairly faithfully by different makers, it suggests that it was a "familiar symbol" to the people of the times, rather than just being some random abstraction of a mist theme.

 

By the way, both tsuba above are likely mid to late Edo.

I suspect the one on the left might look older because of the exposed mokume texture.

 

With something like this, I wouldn't think that either tsuba is copy of the other, but rather, both are just recreations of some other art work that showed this design. I'm also thinking "other art form" as the original (like Ukiyoe maybe) , because I can't say that I've ever seen an example of this design done by some famous tsuba smith, which would warrant others making utsushi of it.

 

Florian, there's definitely a mist element to this... but It's got more than just mist, and perhaps smoke or clouds in the design.

...and "Big bird in a nest" from mr. Big   

Colin, if these are representations of kanji, I'd suspect someone would have spotted what they might be already... so I'm thinking they're probably not kanji. Good guess though 

 

still a mystery for now...

   

[Spartancrest]

   Two more ambiguous designs - will we ever know what they mean? 

[Bazza]

For the OP offering, I can't help but think of 'jigsaw' puzzle pieces, perhaps something from Mingei that was popular amongst 'the people'???

 

BaZZa.

[Bugyotsuji]

They do have many recognizably traditional elements in them.

 

Pleasing designs?

 

Deliberately puzzling designs?

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Deliberately puzzling designs?

Yep board out of his mind....thinking this should f..k with ther minds for years to come. 

[Gakusee]

Has anyone asked Eckhard Kremers for his thoughts? 

[GRC]

I personally don't know Eckhard so have not thought to ask...

If someone else knows him personally, then by all means, feel free to see if he's interested in taking a look. 

 

 

By the way Dale @Spartancrest I'm pretty sure that top tsuba is 3 stylized chidori flying over waves of water. You can even see the outline of the eye on the three chidori. 

[ROKUJURO]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:44 AM, Spartancrest said:

   Two more ambiguous designs - will we ever know what they mean? 

Dale,

the lowest TSUBA picture reminds me of the well known GENJI MONOGATARI incense game. There is the symbol and fumes, so I think it matches. 
See image of a TSUBA with a similar subject.

[ROKUJURO]

23 hours ago, Gakusee said:

Has anyone asked Eckhard Kremers for his thoughts? 

Ask him: r.e.kremers(at)gmx.net 

I hope his old e-mail address is still valid.  

[GRC]

Genji incense game is a good call Jean 

[Guest Simon R]

There's actually a very simple answer as to why the second tsuba looks so close to the first.

Look on Mercari or Yahoo Auctions nowadays and you'll see lots of modern 'tsuba' precision laser-cut from mild steel and based on old patterns.

Never corroded, never mounted.

 

Et voilà.....

[BIG]

It still reminds me at the nesting design

 

https://www.liveauct...g-crane-in-openwork/