daisho for advanced training in iaido

[Yves]

Hi, is there any advantage, apart from the obvious to start training with sharp blades, to use a daisho while training in Iai. I can see that in Seitei it would not be of use, but I could see that in Koryu it could be of use since the kashira is intended to be in the centerline of the body versus the tsuba. (so not at 45°). To be honest this makes me think the old techniques were indeed intended to be done with wackizashi in the belt. 

[Guest Simon R]

If any kata begins from seiza, the performer would only have been wearing, at most, a wakizashi back in the day.

[Yves]

Never seen a Iaidoka perform kata with Wakizashi. All are done with uchigatana. 

[OceanoNox]

There is a method of practice called katate hayanuki in the Muso Shinden / Muso Jikiden / Muso Shinden Jushin schools, where all the kata of chuden are made one-handed. Some have interpreted this as meaning the seating kata were meant to be done with a wakizashi. The densho in Kimura sensei's book clearly show longswords however, even in seated position.

Depending on the teacher, the sword is drawn either with the tsukakashira forward (as threat) or 45° to the right (to avoid getting the sword taken from you). The sword may also be set with the tsuka relatively far forward. I have not seen evidence of iai with daisho, but those two points could either be due to technique or because a wakizashi was expected to be there.

 

It is always claimed that nobody would bring a longsword indoors, but this is false. The journal of samurai Ishigaki (石城日記, https://kmj.flet.kei...on/2013/04.html#view), which he drew when locked at home during the Bakumatsu, shows that at least acquaintances and friends would bring the longsword indoors (not in the belt, but next to them). Also the longsword would be worn when seated in seiza during practice too!

 

Unless daisho is worn in your koryu, I do not think there is any advantage to wear one, in terms of improvement. In matters like these, the answer is usually "ask your sensei".

[Yves]

Nobody owns a wakisachi in our dojo and I'm just one grade below my sensei. BTW: I train in Muso Shinden.

[Jacques]

Katori Shinto ryu advanced members use "daisho" (Ryötö jutsu) but they are bokken.  

[OceanoNox]

3 hours ago, Yves said:

I train in Muso Shinden.

I haven't read Kimura sensei's book on Muso Shinden Jushin ryu, so I may have missed mentions of wakizashi or kodachi, but there is no mention of wakizashi in any of the books I have concerning Muso Shinden ryu (by Danzaki sensei, by Matsumine sensei, or books concerning Nakayama sensei).

[YOSE]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:48 AM, Yves said:

Never seen a Iaidoka perform kata with Wakizashi. All are done with uchigatana. 

It probab

ly depends on the iai style. There are dozens of them (hundreds?), some use a wakizashi (kodachi).

 

What OceanoNox wrote does certainly make sense.