Tips for online search for mei for comparison?

[axeman1984]

Hi All,

 

I want to find known examples of signatures to compare with my blade.

Are there places (perhaps Japanese sites) or perhaps special search terms that can be used to search for pictures of mei for a specific swordmaker?

Of course I have attempted google searches in many forms, as well as the great resources on nihontoclub, but I cannot find examples of "Sukehide" to compare with my blade.

[Mikaveli]

Which Sukehide?

 

Personally, I used the Nihonto Club site for the full Kanji of a mei - e.g. 一備州吉岡住助秀

 

Then, armed with that - used it to search Google Books. Sometimes you can see relevant pages where your smith is featured, but I've tended to buy the books featuring my smiths of interest.

[axeman1984]

  On 8/20/2023 at 6:57 AM, Mikaveli said:

Which Sukehide?

 

Personally, I used the Nihonto Club site for the full Kanji of a mei - e.g. 一備州吉岡住助秀

 

Then, armed with that - used it to search Google Books. Sometimes you can see relevant pages where your smith is featured, but I've tended to buy the books featuring my smiths of interest.

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Which Sukehide is the question I am hoping to get clues to through comparing with known examples. The mei is only 助秀 on a wakizashi, so the extended signatures in Nihonto Club aren't very useful for ID. I really need a picture to compare the actual engraving. I was able to find one book I could buy that presumably has a picture (unknown if mei is included) of one Sukehide blade in "Bizen Ichimonji: Hanayaka na Nihonto". However I am not inclined to spend a large amount of money for an out of print book that may not have what I am looking for.

[Mikaveli]

You can use a bit of process of elimination. Usually, it states how a smith signs - and some Sukehide use different Kanji - or only signed in a longer form - so you can rule them out.

 

Likewise, Nihonto Club sometimes has links to known works - including museum listings if you're lucky. That gives you pictures to look at and compare etc.

[axeman1984]

  On 8/20/2023 at 7:41 AM, Mikaveli said:

You can use a bit of process of elimination. Usually, it states how a smith signs - and some Sukehide use different Kanji - or only signed in a longer form - so you can rule them out.

 

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Do those longer form examples hold true with shorter blades like wakizashi? It was my understanding that it was not uncommon to use a 2 character name only signature for wakizashi even if a longer form was used on longer blades.

[Mikaveli]

Good question! I suspect the answer will vary. 

 

For Terukado, all the extant examples I've seen sign with title (although his title changed over time).

 

Other smiths, sometimes didn't sign. 

 

Aside from mei, learning about what features certain Smith's used is always good knowledge. Tang shapes, file marks, blade style, forging patterns etc.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Can you post a picture of your sword and the signature?

[axeman1984]

  On 8/20/2023 at 5:22 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

Can you post a picture of your sword and the signature?

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It is a heavily damaged and tired blade out of polish and mistreated by the previous owner. Nakago appears to be ubu. I posted it previously but the pictures were rough. I found the right light and angle combination where you can finally see the hamon a bit, so that may provide some clues. I also took a new picture of the mei.

 

My gut feelings at this point are that the blade is Bizen, and possibly from the Sukehide of the Yoshioka Ichimonji school around 1346-1370 listed here.

https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/SUK93

 

There are many Sukehide from Kamakura period, but since wakizashi are not supposed to have been created before the Muromachi period that points me to this smith.

However I cannot find an example of his signature to compare, and I don't know enough about hamon to know if there are any clues for or against my theory hidden there. My assumption is that in this condition only the general hamon shape is really visible and things like nioi and nie would require a polish to bring out. I would be happy to be wrong though.

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I cannot say anything for certain but to me your sword could be Muromachi Bizen work by a smith named Sukehide.

 

For the Yoshioka Ichimonji Sukehide I have been able to so far find only a single blade remaining, that has been featured in many references, you can see it linked here: https://web.archive.....nihonto.com/1-2-17/

 

Then there was also Ko-Bizen Sukehide, you can see reference here: https://iidakoendo.com/4583/

 

And I have identified 2 tachi by Fukuoka Ichimonji Sukehide in references.

 

I think your sword looks to me to be genuine but I would guess it dating from Muromachi period rather than before that. I cant really say anything for certain by just from 2 pictures.

[axeman1984]

  On 8/20/2023 at 9:19 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

I cannot say anything for certain but to me your sword could be Muromachi Bizen work by a smith named Sukehide.

 

For the Yoshioka Ichimonji Sukehide I have been able to so far find only a single blade remaining, that has been featured in many references, you can see it linked here: https://web.archive.....nihonto.com/1-2-17/

 

Then there was also Ko-Bizen Sukehide, you can see reference here: https://iidakoendo.com/4583/

 

And I have identified 2 tachi by Fukuoka Ichimonji Sukehide in references.

 

I think your sword looks to me to be genuine but I would guess it dating from Muromachi period rather than before that. I cant really say anything for certain by just from 2 pictures.

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Thanks! I feel like the mei are not a good match unfortunately. Particularly the "suke" character looks very unique compared to any others I have seen, especially the curving downward stroke on the right which crosses over the main vertical stroke at the bottom.