Thoughts on tagane age in mei

[Ron M]

Good morning to any who see this,

 I have been studying this nijimei for a couple of years now. It has been returned to me twice as gimei for Kagemitsu from nbthk and nthk.

I am no expert but I have seen and read where Tanobe-Sensei states that the age of tagane in a mei is seen through a loop and look like many dots as it has aged and cannot be faked.

if you look at these pics you can see “newer chisel marks” all around the mei itself but I cannot help but feel this mei chiseling is much older than 1560’s Mino ( which is what the experts stated). I have many of this era and they look much cleaner. I’m studying Heian Juyo blades I see this same type of dot marking on the very old nakago.

If this nijimei was legit for Kashu Kagemitsu then it would be 1270-1320 era. I am not trying to dispute the experts, just looking at what I see in studies and research by other experts.

any thoughts are excellent regardless.

thank you

[DoTanuki yokai]

No matter how good your (Gi-?)Mei is if it doesn’t match the workmanship of the swordsmith it will always be judged Gimei. 
 

Show us the whole sword if you want a better opinion from me.

[Ron M]

1 hour ago, DoTanuki yokai said:

No matter how good your (Gi-?)Mei is if it doesn’t match the workmanship of the swordsmith it will always be judged Gimei. 
 

Show us the whole sword if you want a better opinion from me.

I have attached more of the Sugata and hada/hamon as requested. I have more if desired.

regards and thank you 

[mywei]

This looks like a work in the Mino style in my opinion (I might be wrong ofc)

If you're thinking Kashu Kagemitsu you would expect some similarity to Sanekage work due to lineage but I can't see that here

[Ron M]

16 minutes ago, mywei said:

This looks like a work in the Mino style in my opinion (I might be wrong ofc)

If you're thinking Kashu Kagemitsu you would expect some similarity to Sanekage work due to lineage but I can't see that here

Okay thank you for that. I would very much appreciate what easily described features make that opinion. This ofc would be another vote for Mino so I want to investigate for my own forward appreciation of it.

thank you!

[mywei]

Regular looking gunome with some togariba

Masame hada, high shinogi

 

Those were what gave off Mino vibes imo

[Jussi Ekholm]

For 1st gen Kaga Kagemitsu the date would be around 100 years later than in your OP. I believe he was working during late Nanbokuchō - Early Muromachi.

[Ron M]

9 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

For 1st gen Kaga Kagemitsu the date would be around 100 years later than in your OP. I believe he was working during late Nanbokuchō - Early Muromachi.

Yes sir i understand you. My initial start with this was through these same pictures sent to Ray Singer. He said to look toward Kashu Kagemitsu, that this may also, as an alternative to the Mino thinkers, that it may be the earlier possible 1st Gen. Kagemitsu based on his, Ray’s, understanding of these two snippets of info I have attached. He wasn’t disputing anything. Just giving me a direction to work. This is what I am seeking to find out why and how it isn’t just a 1560’s Mino and may be this other. This is just something I have been pursuing as a hobby. Thank you for the info and all in advance.

[Jacques D.]

A regular gunome is not the appanage of Mino swordsmiths; it is also found in Kaga. That said, this blade is rinsed.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I would think Kaga Kagemitsu lineage would be logical to follow as Ray pointed out. I would have gone to that direction as well, as it continues to later Muromachi. However as both expert organizations have disliked the signature I do think it can be false signature.

[mywei]

https://www.nipponto...swords2/KT222350.htm

 

Here's a signed (not papered) example of Muromachi Kashu Kagemitsu for reference