Netsuke Identification

[Jmhale]

Can anyone tell me the age of this netsuke? 

[SteveM]

The mei says 友忠 Tomotada, probably intended to be Izumiya Tomotada (late 18th century). If I'm not mistaken, there are as many fakes in the netsuke world as there are in the sword world. Theme is Ōmori Hikoshichi with demon on his back. 

[Jmhale]

Wow!! That would awesome if it's not a fake. Thank you!!

[Bugyotsuji]

The photos are rather fuzzy, but the signature itself looks to have been added later. 

[Matsunoki]

Sorry to disappoint Jon but this is most definitely not a genuine 18thC Kyoto Tomotada netsuke. It’s not even close, not in subject nor quality. It’s not even “school of”.  

Go onto Bonhams website and search “netsuke tomotada” in past lots and you’ll see the difference.

[Jmhale]

No disappointment at all. Thank you for the help. It's still a neat peace. I checked out Bonhams difinently not the same. 

[ROKUJURO]

May it rest in piece. 

[PietroParis]

While I fully agree that the signature looks bogus, a fake Tomotada is not necessarily a fake netsuke altogether.  It's true that the decoration of the clothes looks particularly sloppy, but it might in turn have been added later – clearer pictures would be needed to discern possible traces of an electric tool. Also, it looks like most of the ink highlights were lost, perhaps in a misguided attempt at cleaning. I would not yet rule out the possibility of a piece made in Japan in the 19th century (or early 20th century). This would still be considered collectible, although certainly not as valuable as an 18th-century Tomotada.  

[Matsunoki]

Just to be clear this is a perfectly genuine old netsuke. It is just the signature that is fake and likely added later. It’s general shape and composition suggests, like many, that it was carved from a cheap outer offcut  of ivory as evidenced by the circular crack in the base. It’s obviously been around for a while because the considerable wear is apparent and the patina has that nice “buttery” texture. Possibly early 19thC.

The engraved decoration to the clothing is also original…..it’s just heavily worn.

[Jmhale]

Does anyone know someone who collects these?

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, Jon, I know several people who do, ranging from the casual collector to the super serious.

 

There is an organization called The International Netsuke Society, and within that, Euronetsuke. Both put out magazines and discuss Netsuke, people and meetings, etc.

[Ford Hallam]

Well apart from the ugly carving technique the himotoshi bother me. This piece will evidently hang upside down on the obi  I'd call that a netsuke fail.

[Jmhale]

I don't think it hangs upside down. From the pictures I've seen, the netsuke carving is on top so the string would come out of the bottom making the figure right side up.

[Ford Hallam]

Perhaps you should have a look for a photograph that shows how netsuke are actually worn. 

[rematron]

But both holes are at the bottom of the netsuke, making the top likely to hang below the suspending cords...

[Ford Hallam]

The acid test will be to post it on the International Netsuke society forum pages. See what they say? Opinions as to what constitutes a real netsuke are pretty harsh... 

[b.hennick]

My first thought is that someone drilled holes in an okimono. I agree the large hole on the bottom does not work. well.

[Ford Hallam]

Oh and as for references about 8 pieces that I made were bought by and are displayed in the Seishu Netsuke museum in Kyoto, just though I'd mention that 

[rematron]

@Ford Hallam, do you have a published compilation of photos of all your completed work?  If not, I hope you or an associate or biographer organizes one in the future.  It would be a great book.

[Ford Hallam]

Cheers Jeremy, I suppose at some point vanity will demand a retrospective collection of images of my works. I have kept a photo record of most things I've made in the Japanese traditions at least, my goldsmithing is less well documented. 

[Espy]

On 9/22/2023 at 8:07 PM, rematron said:

... It would be a great book.

"I thank God I wore my corset today for fear my sides may split"

[PietroParis]

On 9/19/2023 at 7:42 PM, Ford Hallam said:

Well apart from the ugly carving technique the himotoshi bother me. This piece will evidently hang upside down on the obi  I'd call that a netsuke fail.

 

In fact the so-called "chimney" arrangement of the himotoshi is quite common in older pieces, see the example below from my (modest) collection. My concern would rather be that it is out of character on the relatively late-looking carving of the original post.

 

 

[PietroParis]

On 9/22/2023 at 6:52 PM, Jmhale said:

I don't think it hangs upside down. From the pictures I've seen, the netsuke carving is on top so the string would come out of the bottom making the figure right side up.

 

When the himotoshi is asymmetric the larger hole is supposed to host the knot, so in this case the end of the cord would enter from the back and exit from the bottom. Again, this arrangement is not so unusual, even if it's not really clear to me how it could hang right. In fact, there are "extremists" in the netsuke community who believe that [Edit: the himotoshi arrangement does not matter much because] sculptural carvings were hardly ever worn as netsuke. I'm not sure what to think of that theory, but it is true that most representations of people wearing netsuke in paintings and woodblock prints depict manju (the round and flat variety of netsuke).

[Matsunoki]

48 minutes ago, PietroParis said:

In fact the so-called "chimney" arrangement of the himotoshi is quite common in older pieces,

Perfectly correct. Back in my dealing days I encountered many such netsuke and I also had several in my collection. I don’t think this is “late” though. The colour/patina and rather heavy wear suggest early-mid 19thC. This style utilised cheap off-cuts of ivory where a flaw was discovered (ie the visible hairline circumferential crack). They were intended to sit flat right on top of the Obi with the flat underside downwards meaning they were upright and looking outwards. They are nearly always depicting assorted historical or mythical figures and you even find mounted (horse) examples. They also crop up in boxwood. 

[Winchester]

Don't feel bad, OP. It happened to me too and better this than a more costly learning curve.

 

I always thought they were interesting--netsuke--but was focused in other areas of the hobby. I erroneously purchases one similar to yours, but it was only a few bucks. I keep it, because I simply enjoy it and could care less. 

 

Best to you and yours--

[PietroParis]

On 11/19/2023 at 4:17 PM, Winchester said:

Don't feel bad, OP. It happened to me too and better this than a more costly learning curve. I always thought they were interesting--netsuke--but was focused in other areas of the hobby. I erroneously purchases one similar to yours, but it was only a few bucks. I keep it, because I simply enjoy it and could care less.

 

I would not necessarily consider this an erroneous purchase, unless it was described as an 18th-century Tomotada and priced accordingly. As discussed above, if you disregard the fake signature it still looks like a relatively old Japanese carving, which is more than can be said of most of the trinkets marketed as netsuke nowadays. Think of it as a gimei sword, still collectible as long as you know what you're buying.

[Jmhale]

I only paid $0.25 for it. I did have it appraised recently. They confirmed it was mid 19th century. Valued at $500. I'm not sure if they have the value correct. 

[Matsunoki]

22 minutes ago, Jmhale said:

Valued at $500. I'm not sure if they have the value correct. 

It’s somewhere around that amount but most knowledgeable collectors will be put off by the fake signature. Maybe $250-300 would be more realistic. It would be worth nothing in the UK as it’s illegal to sell ivory! Nice find for that money!

[ROKUJURO]

7 hours ago, Jmhale said:

......I did have it appraised recently. They confirmed it was mid 19th century. Valued at $500.  

That makes me curious! A confirmation with an actual market price? Who was the appraiser? 

[Jmhale]

Dr Lori Verderame