Mino, Kane...something?

[Klop]

Gentlemen,

 

Could you review and complete my work on this signature?

 

I believe it says "No shu seki ju kane xxx". The last one possibly "Tsuji" but I am not sure about that.

 

The nakago is somewhat glossy because a previous owner used the tipsection of a scabbard as tsuka, fixing the blade with some (artificial) resin. On this "tsuka" they nailed a hanger for paintings so this was definately a wallpiece, I think for the last decades untill I received it.

 

Blade is nagasa 55,5 cm with sori 1,8, although hamachi is just about gone there is still a good portion of hamon left which is quite irregular, also boshi is healthy. Any info about smith (era, rating) and opinions are welcome!

 

Thanks,

Eric.

[Ted Tenold]

Looks like a variation of Tsuji to me as well. Hawley's lists six Kanetsuji with one signing as this one from (1555) listed as "sharp". Fujishiro lists one as well rated as Chusaku and wazamono (sharp). No oshigata I could find in a brief search.

[Jacques D.]

HI,

 

Fujishiro lists one as well rated as Chusaku and wazamono (sharp). No oshigata I could find in a brief search.

 

There is an oshigate of this one in the Koto Nyumon, no resemblance.

[John A Stuart]

Here is one. Sue-Seki. John

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi Eric,besides the Kanetsuji with the above Mei and Oshigata,there is a second one,who can be excluded: Hawley's KAN 2729,Tenmon Era.In Shibata's magazine "REI" Showa 62,February,there are pics with a different Mei.Ludolf

[Klop]

Gentlemen,

 

Thanks for your input so far. I'm in doubt whether this is gimei; are the known kanetsuji important enough to falsify? It doesn't approach the oshigata shown so if it is an attempt to copy it's a lousy one At least the inscription seems old, but that doesn't say much. Is the style and position on the nakago OK? In that case maybe the mei is original but from a not so famous smith... I'll attach a pic of the complete nakago.

 

Best regards,

Eric

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Eric,

Notice that distressed spot on the nakago above the mei? Right where an arsenal stamp would be if this were a Gunto?. I've seen a few Gunto from WWII that have had their stamps peened down and their nakagos treated to make them look older. Don't know if the ha-machi was ever ground back to fit the supposed old age.

Any case, I'm not saying that this is what you have; just giving you one more possibility to consider.

Grey

[Bazza]

Hi Eric,

Notice that distressed spot on the nakago above the mei? Right where an arsenal stamp would be if this were a Gunto?. I've seen a few Gunto from WWII that have had their stamps peened down and their nakagos treated to make them look older. Don't know if the ha-machi was ever ground back to fit the supposed old age.

Any case, I'm not saying that this is what you have; just giving you one more possibility to consider.

Grey

I agree. The first thing I noticed was the extreme "chippy" style of the kanji (meibun???) and I immediately said to myself "GUNTO". Until Grey raised the ugly word I was simply going to ask if this "chippy" style was around in Koto times. I don't believe so. I too have seen other swords with a "rust spot" right where an arsenal stamp would be...

 

Regards,

Barry Thomas.

[Klop]

Hi Grey, Barry,

 

Thanks for your input, I see what you mean and I too think that something might have been there once. I hope I'm not trying to fool myself and I don't want to be stubborn, if you are right you are right, simple as that.

 

But in this case....well, the blade just doesn't have the "feel" of gunto to me.

I have owned a few of them -literally just a few- and I think they are quite clumsy. This one seems different. I'm pretty sure it's handforged / water-quenched and the nagasa of 55,5 cm is not a normal gunto size (dangerous remark, now it may become a broken gunto )? Furthermore the short hi on both sides and a perfectly fitting brassplated habaki point me towards true nihonto. If only the hamachi would have been ground down the shape would be awkward, unless the whole edge up to the kissaki was treated this way.

I'll take some more measurements and open a window to show hamon and grain, pics of this will follow later.

 

To everyone who is a bit shy ; I welcome all input, even if it's not what you think I would like to hear. Just be frank, by sharing opinions I can learn. I won't be offended by an honest remark.

 

At last to the moderators; maybe you want to close or relocate this thread as the translation of the inscription seems done, at least there appears to be no resistance to the "tsuji" bit...

So that's what it says, discussion about it being genuine/gunto/gendaito may belong in the nihonto section?

 

Best regards,

Eric.

[Klop]

Hello gents,

 

As promised in the translation topic I've opened a window and took some more measurements.

The total picture we are looking at in cm's:

nagasa 55,5

nakago 16,5

sori 1,8

motohaba 2,9 motokasane 6 mm

sakihaba 2,1 sakikasane 4,5 mm

 

The picture with comparison to a (handforged) gunto also shows the outline of the hamon which is quite wild; mountains, near the end of the Hi are a few "3 cedars", then some more mountains with a tobiyaki in the middle section and in the monouchi it straightens out a bit.

Closeups show nie. Habaki custommade for this blade, better quality folded brassy sheetmetal cover. Yasurime on the nakago not visible, cutting edge worn down, hamachi virtually gone.

 

Based on this I would say it is safe to conclude "true nihonto, pre-showa".

 

But then it just starts... shinto? or even koto? Does the style of hamon and nakago fit Seki, Mino?

 

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Best regards,

Eric.

[Toryu2020]

Eric -

For starters you have NIE visible which is a huge push toward true Nihonto, don't see which sword we are talking about, I can vaguely see what looks like sanbonsugi on the katana but don't see it in the close up photos. Also don't see the nakago well enough. Should I be following this in the translation thread?

 

-tom

[Brian]

Merged the 2 topics. Please don't open a new topic for the same sword.

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Klop]

Hi Tom,

 

Thanks for your input. The discussion was about the waki, it started with translation assistance and evolved in the question of it being nihonto or modified gunto. Just in front of the hi is one group of sanbonsugi or... well, I see 3 peaks, but that's not really the issue. This part is not in the closeups of the hamon because I opened the window further near the tip where it has a different shape. Since Brian merged the threads I presume you saw the closeups of the wak's nakago with signature.

 

The katana is what I would call sanbonsugi all over but was just for comparison of sizes and curvatures, it's not being discussed. So you are absolutely right, there are no closeups of the katana's hamon.

 

I apologize for any inconvenience or confusion, I just felt that the disucssion about a sword being nihonto or not is a completely different one than having it's inscription translated and should therefor be in it's own section.

 

As far as I'm concerned all questions have been answered, thanks to all!

 

Best regards,

Eric.