cleaning copper tsuba?

[Marius]

No, this is not the dreaded question - "should I clean a copper tsuba?". It is just that I have recently bought a suaka tsuba in very good condition (BTW, it has been identified as a gimei Miboku here http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/nmb/ ... w=previous). While researching Miboku a bit I have stumbled upon an older (2007) picture of the same tsuba: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/0 ... tsuba-with

 

Guess what - the tsuba is undoubtedly the same, but the condition seems worse - it looks like it suffers from oxidation and/or dirt... The tsuba I have got is perfect - same small dent in the upper part, but no dirt or oxidation, and the color is beautiful, rather yellowish...

 

Could it have been cleaned, if so, how?

 

Below pictures of BEFORE and AFTER (and I assure that AFTER looks better in reality than on the picture)

[Stephen]

humm think i like the patina on the first pix ...just me

[Mark Green]

Looks like someone cleaned of the patina to me.

Bummer!! It looked much better before it got cleaned.

Mark G

[Gabriel L]

I agree, re-done patina, not simply "cleaned." Very humble opinion.

[reinhard]

What a shame. It looked quite nice before it was "cleaned".

 

reinhard

[Ford Hallam]

In my opinion that is definitely not the result of careful cleaning...that's a complete re-patination. Incidentally. the yellowish cast to the new patina is called "kabure"(rash) in Japanese and is considered a flaw in the colouring treatment.

[Marius]

In my opinion that is definitely not the result of careful cleaning...that's a complete re-patination. Incidentally. the yellowish cast to the new patina is called "kabure"(rash) in Japanese and is considered a flaw in the colouring treatment.

 

Ford, thank you, the information about "kabure" is very interesting and adds to my limited knowledge.

[remzy]

I humbly believe that copper patina improve over time much faster than steel, so all is not lost if this tsuba is well cared for, you could still enjoy a nice patina on it in your lifetime

[Brian]

Or you could send it to Ford and have him properly re-do the patination as it is supposed to be. Someone obviously tried an amateur job before, but it doesn't look lost.

 

Brian

[Ted Tenold]

I humbly believe that copper patina improve over time much faster than steel, so all is not lost if this tsuba is well cared for, you could still enjoy a nice patina on it in your lifetime

 

 

Then again, one has to consider that the patina we see on unretouched pieces is a result of an original treatment by the artist that *then* ages with time. When the entire piece is cleaned you loose both. Time will indeed alter the retouched treatment but it's likely it will still standout oddly against peer pieces in a hundred years. Proper restoration may bring it to the first step or close to it, but the "tincture of time" will always be lost and natural aging of the piece hindered. Time may heal all wounds but scars may still remain.

[Marius]

 

 

Then again, one has to consider that the patina we see on unretouched pieces is a result of an original treatment by the artist that *then* ages with time. When the entire piece is cleaned you loose both. Time will indeed alter the retouched treatment but it's likely it will still standout oddly against peer pieces in a hundred years. Proper restoration may bring it to the first step or close to it, but the "tincture of time" will always be lost and natural aging of the piece hindered. Time may heal all wounds but scars may still remain.

 

Ted, thanks a lot for pointing this out. Too bad that pictures do not show colours as they really are... I find it very difficult to describe the color - it is definitely not red and different from the other two suaka tsuba I have in my collection. Rather like something "light brownish"? A very pleasant color to my eyes...

 

Anyway, what is your advice: should the tsuba be properly repatinated or rather left alone? I am inclined to leave it as it is, but that's me, the humble beginner...

[John A Stuart]

Hi All, I am partial to suaka tousogu and tsuba. When the patina is right it shows a nice dark mahogany colour. An example is shown. The pic of the same tsuba that has been shopped shows how the colour can be deceptive in pics, this having been done to show the workmanship. The tsuba in question here has that black build-up I have seen before that is totally uncharacteristic of legitimate patina. In most cases a surface treatment that is farly water soluble and an applique rather than a metalurgical finish. Sometimes I think boot black is used. This tsuba where there is that black build up has been done a disservice although the base metal elsewhere shows nicely. Time would help for sure, but, if that is the true colour, done subsequently, a proper re-patination would help, if not the pocket book. John