DENTED KISSAKI(TIP)

[Bruno]

Hello everyone!

 

I have a question about a dented kisaki on a showato sword that I want to buy.

 

I do not know if it is possible to repair it or not.

 

Is anybody can give his opinion on it?

 

I join two pics of it.

 

Many thanks

 

Bruno

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

On a true nihonto if the tip were bent like this without further damage, like fractures, it would look repairable as long as the boshi didn't run-off, otherwise it is likely to be finished.

The bigger question here is is it worth the trouble and expense for a showato? An inexperienced collector may think it is just a matter of repairing the kissaki area and then the rest is just fine, but that would be a misconception.

[Bruno]

Hello Franco!

 

Thank you for your response.

I know a bit about Japanese swords but not that much. I did know that damaged kissaki is a real problem for nihonto. This one is for sure a showato. I do not know how to fix it and if it is worth to do it(expensive or not to repair?). I do not think a standard polishing would be enought, reforged the tip appears to me to be the solution, am I right? Same question, is it worth to do so for a showato?

Is this blade "dead" or not?

 

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO THINK ABOUT IT?

 

HELP MEEEEEEEE PLEASE!!!!!!

 

Bruno

[nagamaki - Franco]

I do not think a standard polishing would be enought, reforged the tip appears to me to be the solution, am I right? Same question, is it worth to do so for a showato?

Is this blade "dead" or not?

 

Hello Bruno,

 

A few suggestions to start with; 1) using the search function here at the top of the NMB page search 'kissaki repair'. 2) you tube has some pretty good videos on sword polishing, spend some time there searching and viewing.

It is not possible to fully appreciate Japanese swords without understanding the basics of nihonto polishing. Online articles and books about nihonto polishing, read, read, read.

Finally, place reforging out of your mind.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Bruno,

If the kissaki is just bent it may be possible for a properly trained polisher to straighten it (don't dare try this yourself!). It looks in the picture like there might be a crack at the base of the bend. If there is a crack your only option is to have the kissaki reshaped, again by a proper polisher, and this can be done only if there is sufficient room in the boshi.

You need to have a polisher look at this.

Grey

[Andi B.]

...can hardened steel bent like this?

I thought the tip will break of if treated in this way?

[Bazza]

...can hardened steel bent like this?

I thought the tip will break of if treated in this way?

Yes - here is my reply to this question from thread viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5959&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30:

Bruno,

My opinion is that it is fatal because it should have broken in the first place if it was correctly hardened. The bend as opposed to a break means the steel is soft, which means it isn't correctly hardened or has been damaged by excessive heat that has drawn the hardening. Either way definitely a sword to be avoided like the plague IMHO (In My Humble Opinion)

Regards,

Barry Thomas.

[Bruno]

thanks.

 

that make sense, soft steel bend, well hardened steel break= this showato was badly made.

 

however, if it did not break when it had probably felt on the tip, that could also mean that it would not break neither if "we" try to fix it, as the steel appear to be soft.

 

anyway, a bad forged sword is a bad forged sword. so it is no worth to swap it for my mint condition NCO?

 

 

thanks a lot for all your opinions guys

[Gunome]

Hi,

 

however, if it did not break when it had probably felt on the tip, that could also mean that it would not break neither if "we" try to fix it, as the steel appear to be soft.

 

It is little more complexe. It is like a piece of wood that break but the fibers are still connected. if you try to straighten it, it breaks. :?

 

Sebastien

[Bruno]

Tu peux me parler en français Sébastien, ça sera plus simple! :D

 

Oui en fait, j'ai mis un post sur ce forum pour échanger mon NCO en super état contre un gunto standard.

 

deux personnes semblent intéressées, une seule pour l'instant m'a envoyée les photos.

Le kissaki semble bien tordu ce qui "apparemment" traduit une lame de mauvaise qualité, meme si celle-ci est réparable.

En somme je ne pense pas que l'échange se fera.

 

Qu'en pense-tu Sébastien?

 

a plus

 

bruno

[Stephen]

Bruno

 

We speak only English here if you want to use French go to PM

 

for those who care

You can speak to me in French Sebastien, that will be simpler! Yes makes some, j' put a post on this forum to exchange my NCO in super state against a standard gunto. two people seem interested, only one for l' moment m' sent the photographs. The kissaki seems well twisted what " apparemment" translated a blade of bad quality, same if this one is reparable. All in all I do not think only l' exchange will be done. Qu' in do you think Sebastien?

[Grey Doffin]

Actually, it is possible for a perfectly hardened kissaki to bend at the tip. I've seen quite a few blades that had their original boshi and a bend in the tip. I've been told that Koto were more likely than Shinto or later to survive without cracking (don't know if that's true).

And, as I mentioned before, if the boshi leaves sufficient room at the tip to allow for reshaping the kissaki behind a crack, once the repair is done the sword won't have suffered severe decrease in value.

This could be more valuable than a mint NCO (or maybe not). It needs to be seen in hand by someone with experience.

Grey

[Bazza]

Actually, it is possible for a perfectly hardened kissaki to bend at the tip. I've seen quite a few blades that had their original boshi and a bend in the tip. I've been told that Koto were more likely than Shinto or later to survive without cracking (don't know if that's true).

And, as I mentioned before, if the boshi leaves sufficient room at the tip to allow for reshaping the kissaki behind a crack, once the repair is done the sword won't have suffered severe decrease in value.

This could be more valuable than a mint NCO (or maybe not). It needs to be seen in hand by someone with experience.

Grey

Grey,

Yes, the sword has to be seen in hand. I honestly cannot comprehend how a "perfectly hardened kissaki" can bend at the tip without breaking. I understand you've seen it with your own eyes Grey, but I wonder about the "hardness" of the yakiba and battle-worthiness in such a case. However, always something to learn and I've tucked this nugget of yours away in my memory banks for a future encounter. I have myself seen only one blade that had the tip bent AND BROKEN - it was hanging on by the kawagane and would probably have broken completely off if straightened. Frankly, I would be very suss about any sword with a bent tip and a hamon. Of course, it would depend on everything else. On Koto being crack resistant, a Japanese collector visiting one day commented that Koto were good because if it bent on the battlefield you just straightened it over your thigh and continued on, and demonstrated pantomime-style as he described this process.

 

Best regards,

Barry Thomas.

[Brian]

I can't claim to understand why...but I can confirm I have seen more than one (apparently properly quenched) Nihonto with a curled tip that didn't break. I was there when one was dropped point first on a carpet and about 3mm curled like a clock spring. No idea why it didn't break. The owner was able to straighten it..again I have no idea how.

 

It goes against what I believe should happen, but it did. Comments welcome.

 

Brian

[loiner1965]

the sword should be saved if at all possible.....it may be a showato but non the less to me its still a work of art.........and my hobby :D

[Bruno]

Hi!

 

 

After all these differents opinions I am completly lost! I just told to the showato owner that I refused the deal because dented kissaki means "bad sword". Maybe I did a mistake , the sword is very nice except for that kissaki...

 

It is so hard to make the right decision, but that is why Japanese swords are so nice to collect!

 

Bruno

[loiner1965]

collectors will avoid swords with hagire unless they are by the top historical smiths as they can easily break due to the stress fracture but in all fairness are you going to use the sword in battle or bamboo cutting......no

it will be wall mounted and used for display porposes only

[Jean]

Bruno wrote :

Maybe I did a mistake , the sword is very nice except for that kissaki...

 

Hi Bruno,

 

You have all your life to decide what to do, never act in a hurry. You have to be fully satisfied of your deal, in case of doubt, don't do it, that's a rule of thumb.

 

Your questions about the bent kissaki shows your lack of basic knowledge about Nihonto. As, in fine, you'll be the only one to take the final decision, you must read basic books in order to understand the way a sword is forged, what are the current defaults to be encountered.

 

Asking anyone advice is a way to feel secure, but you must rely first on your own judgement