Guest Simon R Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 I'll be looking with amusement when the inevitable late bidding war begins on Yahoo Auctions tomorrow over this sayagaki-proven 'Muramasa'. Seriously? Without any papers? I wonder which poor bozo - Japanese or otherwise - will end up with this? https://page.auction...tion?aID=q1100223678 Quote
Ray Singer Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 This seems to be standard fare for Yahoo, the same type of items I receive links from Facebook group members on a daily basis. Typically someone will ask questions for weeks / months saying they want to learn before making a purchase then eventually show the sweet deal they got on a "Muramasa", "Masamune", "Sadamune", "Hasebe", etc off the Japanese auctions. Links come after the fact and it is invariably a no-papers or Tokubetsu Kicho blade, often with a fake Koson or Kanzan sayagaki. There is often shock that a green paper should not be taken at face value, that sayagaki can be questioned or that a torokusho would be issued for anything other than a fully authentic inscription. This sword is absolutely typical of what the Yahoo auctions are polluted with. >> I wonder which poor bozo - Japanese or otherwise - will end up with this? Who? Probably someone from our community of collectors and enthusiasts overseas. There appears to be a cottage industry of fake sayagaki being issued, I imagine a factory-line scenario of these being done one after another, and then rolled out to auction. 7 1 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 On 7/25/2023 at 4:22 PM, Ray Singer said: This seems to be standard fare for Yahoo, the same type of items I receive links from Facebook group members on a daily basis. Typically someone will ask questions for weeks / months saying they want to learn before making a purchase then eventually show the sweet deal they got on a "Muramasa", "Masamune", "Sadamune", "Hasebe", etc off the Japanese auctions. Links come after the fact and it is invariably a no-papers or Tokubetsu Kicho blade, often with a fake Koson or Kanzan sayagaki. There is often shock that a green paper should not be taken at face value, that sayagaki can be questioned or that a torokusho would be issued for anything other than a fully authentic inscription. This sword is absolutely typical of what the Yahoo auctions are polluted with. >> I wonder which poor bozo - Japanese or otherwise - will end up with this? Who? Probably someone from our community of collectors and enthusiasts overseas. There appears to be a cottage industry of fake sayagaki being issued, I imagine a factory-line scenario of these being done one after another, and then rolled out to auction. Expand It's like 'Field of Broken Dreams', isn't it? "Fake it and they will come." Quote
Ray Singer Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 More critical thinking would be good to see, with people asking themselves questions about why the sword has no papers, has not been papered since the 70s, why a sayagaki purportedly written in the 70s looks absolutely brand new. Or why a sword that is supposed by a Nanbokucho/Kamakura period old master would be sold with antiquated papers in the $2k range (rather than than the dealer in Japan resubmitting and selling for 10x that price). The torokusho misperception is a big problem. Collectors who equate torokusho to kanteisho. The insistance sometimes that "My sword IS papered!", "Of course they would not issue a license if the inscription wasn't real", etc doesn't end. Check out the FB groups sometime and see how many mumei shinto wakizashi with gimei/no-mei and torokusho attached to the saya get posted. I know there are exceptions, and am sure that members of the group have pulled nice pieces, overlooked pieces from the auctions, but this is in the minority of purchases (and takes study). 10 Quote
Scogg Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 Ray, per usual, is on-point. His patience in the facebook groups continually impresses me Not gonna lie, I've certainly been a victim of beginner naivety. Luckily, thanks to the advice from ya'll on this forum and Ray on facebook, my current lack of knowledge hasn't gotten me into too much trouble Quote
mywei Posted July 26, 2023 Report Posted July 26, 2023 Fyi for anyone interested Sengo school wakizashi. For some reason the hallmark identical hamon on both sides has always been kinda appealing visually to me. Must be the feeling of symmetry that it exudes https://www.nipponto...swords9/WK330205.htm 3 1 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 27, 2023 Report Posted July 27, 2023 JFYI It's presently up to ¥40,000 with a 'silly dreamer with no books' spurt expected around 10pm Japan time. Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 27, 2023 Report Posted July 27, 2023 And they're off to an early start! ¥60,500 and it's only 17:30pm. Quote
Shuko Posted July 27, 2023 Report Posted July 27, 2023 I am sure Brian is going to win this one ........................... Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 27, 2023 Report Posted July 27, 2023 ¥76,000 and we're into the home stretch. Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 27, 2023 Report Posted July 27, 2023 GOING ....GOING ....GONE! AT ¥81,000 TO THE DELUDED PILLOCK WITH MORE MONEY THAN SENSE! But fear not folks, for here is yet another bargain basement Muramasa! https://page.auction.../auction/f1100261395 Quote
JAMJ Posted July 27, 2023 Report Posted July 27, 2023 What about this one? Is there a sudden rash on available swords?? https://www.ebay.com...r=artemis&media=COPY Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 28, 2023 Report Posted July 28, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 2:50 PM, JAMJ said: What about this one? Is there a sudden rash on available swords?? https://www.ebay.com...r=artemis&media=COPY Expand And all without papers! Those philanthropic Japanese dealers sure are giving us collectors a fantastic opportunity to buy newly unearthed treasures for peanuts, and then get them papered ourselves - because all those Muramasa blades are sure to pass shinsa! Quote
raynor Posted July 29, 2023 Report Posted July 29, 2023 On 7/28/2023 at 4:15 AM, SRDRowson said: And all without papers! Expand And that is where one should stop reading sword auctions and switch to browsing amazon or so instead! Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 30, 2023 Report Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 3:38 PM, raynor said: And that is where one should stop reading sword auctions and switch to browsing amazon or so instead! Expand Blimey, you can get a Muramasa on Amazon now? 😉 Quote
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