'Genuine' Muramasa - going cheap.

[Guest Simon R]

I'll be looking with amusement when the inevitable late bidding war begins on Yahoo Auctions tomorrow over this sayagaki-proven 'Muramasa'.

 

Seriously? Without any papers?

 I wonder which poor bozo - Japanese or otherwise - will end up with this?

 

https://page.auction...tion?aID=q1100223678

[Ray Singer]

This seems to be standard fare for Yahoo, the same type of items I receive links from Facebook group members on a daily basis. Typically someone will ask questions for weeks / months saying they want to learn before making a purchase then eventually show the sweet deal they got on a "Muramasa", "Masamune", "Sadamune", "Hasebe", etc off the Japanese auctions. Links come after the fact and it is invariably a no-papers or Tokubetsu Kicho blade, often with a fake Koson or Kanzan sayagaki. There is often shock that a green paper should not be taken at face value, that sayagaki can be questioned or that a torokusho would be issued for anything other than a fully authentic inscription. This sword is absolutely typical of what the Yahoo auctions are polluted with. 

 

>> I wonder which poor bozo - Japanese or otherwise - will end up with this?

 

Who? Probably someone from our community of collectors and enthusiasts overseas. There appears to be a cottage industry of fake sayagaki being issued, I imagine a factory-line scenario of these being done one after another, and then rolled out to auction.

[Guest Simon R]

26 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

This seems to be standard fare for Yahoo, the same type of items I receive links from Facebook group members on a daily basis. Typically someone will ask questions for weeks / months saying they want to learn before making a purchase then eventually show the sweet deal they got on a "Muramasa", "Masamune", "Sadamune", "Hasebe", etc off the Japanese auctions. Links come after the fact and it is invariably a no-papers or Tokubetsu Kicho blade, often with a fake Koson or Kanzan sayagaki. There is often shock that a green paper should not be taken at face value, that sayagaki can be questioned or that a torokusho would be issued for anything other than a fully authentic inscription. This sword is absolutely typical of what the Yahoo auctions are polluted with. 

 

>> I wonder which poor bozo - Japanese or otherwise - will end up with this?

 

Who? Probably someone from our community of collectors and enthusiasts overseas. There appears to be a cottage industry of fake sayagaki being issued, I imagine a factory-line scenario of these being done one after another, and then rolled out to auction.

It's like 'Field of Broken Dreams', isn't it?

"Fake it and they will come."

[Ray Singer]

More critical thinking would be good to see, with people asking themselves questions about why the sword has no papers, has not been papered since the 70s, why a sayagaki purportedly written in the 70s looks absolutely brand new. Or why a sword that is supposed by a Nanbokucho/Kamakura period old master would be sold with antiquated papers in the $2k range (rather than than the dealer in Japan resubmitting and selling for 10x that price). 

 

The torokusho misperception is a big problem. Collectors who equate torokusho to kanteisho. The insistance sometimes that "My sword IS papered!", "Of course they would not issue a license if the inscription wasn't real", etc doesn't end. Check out the FB groups sometime and see how many mumei shinto wakizashi with gimei/no-mei and torokusho attached to the saya get posted.

 

I know there are exceptions, and am sure that members of the group have pulled nice pieces, overlooked pieces from the auctions, but this is in the minority of purchases (and takes study). 

[Brian]

1000 Times what Ray just said.
 

[GeorgeLuucas]

Ray, per usual, is on-point. His patience in the facebook groups continually impresses me

Not gonna lie, I've certainly been a victim of beginner naivety. 

Luckily, thanks to the advice from ya'll on this forum and Ray on facebook, my current lack of knowledge hasn't gotten me into too much trouble 

[mywei]

Fyi for anyone interested 

Sengo school wakizashi. For some reason the hallmark identical hamon on both sides has always been kinda appealing visually to me. Must be the feeling of symmetry that it exudes

https://www.nipponto...swords9/WK330205.htm

[Guest Simon R]

JFYI It's presently up to ¥40,000 with a 'silly dreamer with no books' spurt expected around 10pm Japan time.

[Guest Simon R]

And they're off to an early start!

¥60,500 and it's only 17:30pm.

[Shuko]

I am sure Brian is going to win this one ........................... 

[Guest Simon R]

¥76,000 and we're into the home stretch.

[Guest Simon R]

GOING ....GOING ....GONE!

AT ¥81,000 TO THE DELUDED PILLOCK WITH MORE MONEY THAN SENSE!

 

But fear not folks, for here is yet another bargain basement Muramasa!

https://page.auction.../auction/f1100261395

[JAMJ]

What about this one?  Is there a sudden rash on available swords??

https://www.ebay.com...r=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Guest Simon R]

13 hours ago, JAMJ said:

What about this one?  Is there a sudden rash on available swords??

https://www.ebay.com...r=artemis&media=COPY

 

And all without papers!  

Those philanthropic Japanese dealers sure are giving us collectors a fantastic opportunity to buy newly unearthed treasures for peanuts, and then get them papered ourselves - because all those Muramasa blades are sure to pass shinsa!

[raynor]

On 7/28/2023 at 6:15 AM, SRDRowson said:

And all without papers!

And that is where one should stop reading sword auctions and switch to browsing amazon or so instead!

[Guest Simon R]

19 hours ago, raynor said:

And that is where one should stop reading sword auctions and switch to browsing amazon or so instead!

Blimey, you can get a Muramasa on Amazon now? 😉