Guest Simon R Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 A seller In Japan is suddenly uploading a number of interesting armorers' tsubas - interesting, that is, until you click on them and realise they are very crudely carved and look like they are covered in black paint. One of them is obviously copied from a very famous example with the engraving "NAMU HACHIMAN" and I've included two comparative pictures The (assumed) fake is on the top, the original is on the bottom. I'll be very interested to hear what others think. (Maybe I just can't see a potential national treasure when I see one?) Simon Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 Simon, this guy has been around for a few years now - I have a feeling he is either the 'front' for a backyard smithy or he makes his own supply. They are as you say, all the same 'patina' and the detail is not so great. Usually they are all 'Tosho' or 'Katchushi' rather simple constructions - I also think he throws the occasional "real" antique into his mix to keep people guessing. What do we think of this more elaborate piece by the same seller? This one is another that is being sold by another dealer, but it bears all the same hallmarks and is likely a re-sell. If my eyes don't deceive me the crinkled background fabric is the same as in some of the images above! If you want the links you can PM me. 2 Quote
Brian Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 Cutting tsuba out of mild steel and then burying for a while? Not sure, but with modern technology you can churn these out 100 a day. Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 On 7/25/2023 at 9:37 AM, Spartancrest said: Simon, this guy has been around for a few years now - I have a feeling he is either the 'front' for a backyard smithy or he makes his own supply. They are as you say, all the same 'patina' and the detail is not so great. Usually they are all 'Tosho' or 'Katchushi' rather simple constructions - I also think he throws the occasional "real" antique into his mix to keep people guessing. What do we think of this more elaborate piece by the same seller? This one is another that is being sold by another dealer, but it bears all the same hallmarks and is likely a re-sell. If my eyes don't deceive me the crinkled background fabric is the same as in some of the images above! If you want the links you can PM me. Expand Thanks Dale, I've seen those and here are two more from 'Mr. Tsuba' - same cloth background and, at ¥18,000 with a lead plugged kozuka hitsu-ana, he obviously wants us to believe the first one could be the real deal. Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 On 7/25/2023 at 12:42 PM, SRDRowson said: lead plugged kozuka hitsu-ana Expand Not your usual shape for that hitsu! I wonder does he get his patina from this site? https://www.jauce.com/auction/k1099200929 or https://buyee.jp/ite.../auction/k1099200929 Instant 200 years! 1 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 On 7/25/2023 at 1:15 PM, Spartancrest said: Not your usual shape for that hitsu! I wonder does he get his patina from this site? https://www.jauce.com/auction/k1099200929 or https://buyee.jp/ite.../auction/k1099200929 Instant 200 years! Expand That has to be what he uses! The higher class Japanese dealers, however, all use this stuff - so I personally liberally apply it to all my nakago (Showa to Koto in only 15 minutes)! 🤣 Quote
Kurikata Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 I have heard that some dealers use this Blue Gun paste to repatinate some iron tsuba ? Never tried but ? 3 Quote
Brian Posted July 25, 2023 Report Posted July 25, 2023 This is getting into uncomfortable territory. Let's not... ANY of the gun blue pastes and liquids will be very obvious and unnatural. 4 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 26, 2023 Report Posted July 26, 2023 On 7/25/2023 at 4:25 PM, Brian said: This is getting into uncomfortable territory. Let's not... ANY of the gun blue pastes and liquids will be very obvious and unnatural. Expand Hi Brian, Dale was mocking the fake tsuba guy and it was obvious to all but the very densest of individuals that I was joking about that iron oxidiser. However, the gun bluing was the point at which chemicals first seemed to be taken seriously. SO, JUST TO CLARIFY: NEVER USE ANY CHEMICALS ON YOUR ANTIQUE TSUBA OR NIHONTO! THEY WILL DAMAGE THE IRON SURFACE AND CREATE AN AWFUL ARTIFICIAL 'PATINA', POSSIBLY DESTROYING THE ITEM'S VALUE FOREVER. Quote
Curran Posted July 26, 2023 Report Posted July 26, 2023 On 7/25/2023 at 4:25 PM, Brian said: This is getting into uncomfortable territory. Let's not... ANY of the gun blue pastes and liquids will be very obvious and unnatural. Expand yes, the idea of gun blue on a legit tsuba has the vomit reflex kicking in a bit. I hate it when people hand me a heavily repatinated tsuba and ask, "what do you think" or "what school" The ko-tosho / tosho and ko-katchushi / katchushi game is a difficult one. There are also a lot of 1800s revival pieces that are copies of older ones. Some are very good. 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 29, 2023 Report Posted July 29, 2023 Sorry this is way off subject but talking of fakes - look at the savings you can make if your eyesight and taste has gone to pot! And how about a cast "mukade" or "Shingen" https://www.jauce.com/auction/n1073472167 - at least you don't have to worry that the wires will fall off! 1 2 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted July 29, 2023 Report Posted July 29, 2023 Dale, the last TSUBA looks a bit like a legit SHINGEN type that was heavily sand-blasted. Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 30, 2023 Report Posted July 30, 2023 This weeks "Armourer's" tsuba selection https://www.jauce.com/user/dj2hmyuc a few 'new' faces 2 Quote
Teddy2808 Posted July 30, 2023 Report Posted July 30, 2023 It’s almost astounding to me that they could be so crude. With the amount he’s made you’d think he’d have some improvement overtime. Even from one of my tsuba to the next I feel as if I make significant improvement. This guy has made so many and if he put minimal effort in he could produce good quality pieces if he also fixed his “patina”. It almost looks like he just free hand the cut outs with a jewelers saw and outs zero effort into design. 1 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 30, 2023 Report Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/30/2023 at 3:34 AM, Spartancrest said: This weeks "Armourer's" tsuba selection https://www.jauce.com/user/dj2hmyuc a few 'new' faces Expand Now that is a new one. Jack Skellington from 'The Nightmare Before Christmas' meets 'The Punisher'. 🤣🤣🤣 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 30, 2023 Report Posted July 30, 2023 I just saw this one; it looks like John Carpenter's, 'The Thing' turned itself into a tsuba. 🤣 Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 Simon I think the guy has meshed [as well as messed!] two designs he has seen on-line. Quote
Guest Simon R Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/31/2023 at 12:54 AM, Spartancrest said: Simon I think the guy has meshed [as well as messed!] two designs he has seen on-line. Expand Oh good lord! Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/31/2023 at 8:48 AM, SRDRowson said: Oh good lord! Expand I don't think prayer will help - 2 Quote
Spartancrest Posted August 6, 2023 Report Posted August 6, 2023 Another "new" face has been added - https://www.jauce.com/auction/1101694243 I would suggest a "facelift" - straight into the bin! 1 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted August 6, 2023 Report Posted August 6, 2023 On 8/6/2023 at 3:57 AM, Spartancrest said: Another "new" face has been added - https://www.jauce.com/auction/1101694243 I would suggest a "facelift" - straight into the bin! Expand ¥50,000 for something obviously based on Toshi the salaryman's Friday night 'deposit' of noodles, yakitori and beer on his home subway platform? 🤔 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted August 6, 2023 Report Posted August 6, 2023 In my opinion, these very bad examples pose no real threat to well informed TSUBA collectors. I cannot believe they are really sold in numbers, and I hope the guy who makes them will soon get tired. 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted August 6, 2023 Report Posted August 6, 2023 On 8/6/2023 at 9:00 AM, ROKUJURO said: I hope the guy who makes them will soon get tired. Expand I think from the quality of his work he is already beyond tired! When is he going to retire!! 1 1 Quote
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