Tsuba with skulls

[GoldenDrachen]

Hello gentlemen

 

I came across of this one 

 

unfortunately these pictures are the best I can get

My question here, is there any red flags?

I like it but don't want to burn money on it

 

Regards

Vitaly 

[Spartancrest]

I think it is based at least, on a Nobuie design. It looks late, late Edo to me - probably a revival piece but no real red flags that I can make out. Skulls on tsuba are a popular motif but I think they appeal to Western taste more than the Japanese themselves.

 This one has Amida-yasuri rather than the tortoise shell pattern [kikko] that was favoured by Nobuie.

The lighting is not great but the mei for yours and this piece look very similar? 

 https://twitter.com/.../1099585642131083265

Dr Sue Brunning
@SueBrunningBM
Curator, Sutton Hoo & European Early Medieval Collection 
@britishmuseum

 

 one without the skulls - https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/15638-nobuie-tsuba/

 

Another link here you might like.- https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12231-skull-bones-and-grave-markers/

 

 

[Spartancrest]

Hi Vitaly, a little off topic but this might interest you!   https://www.artgalle...tion/works/145.2019/

 

Perhaps not the most cheerful of apparel?  [it puts a new spin on  "I wouldn't be caught dead wearing this!"   ]

[GoldenDrachen]

Thank you, Dale, so much!

As always very extensive info!

I was thinking myself that this one is late Edo, and I thought I could buy it for 150€ or so...

However people in Japan decided otherwise. This tsuba was sold for  more than €500!!!

Lot number h1098668180

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

  On 7/17/2023 at 1:42 PM, GoldenDrachen said:

Thank you, Dale, so much!

As always very extensive info!

I was thinking myself that this one is late Edo, and I thought I could buy it for 150€ or so...

However people in Japan decided otherwise. This tsuba was sold for  more than €500!!!

Lot number h1098668180

 

 

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Maybe they were reading this thread, Vitaly! 

[GoldenDrachen]

  On 7/17/2023 at 1:53 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

Maybe they were reading this thread, Vitaly! 

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I have to stop advertising the good stuff!😁

[rematron]

  On 7/17/2023 at 4:39 PM, GoldenDrachen said:

I have to stop advertising the good stuff!😁

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No joke!

[GoldenDrachen]

  On 7/17/2023 at 5:40 PM, rematron said:

No joke!

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To be serious, I wasn't sure that this tsuba could be original Nobuie, to me execution is way tooooo clean, so I thought above pice might be a mid to late Edo period copy, but done by some good craftsman. 

Based on that assumption I placed my price tag on it. Bottom line I would not spend 500 on it.

But then again, I have very little experience and often act on a hunch 

 

[Geraint]

Dear Vitaly.

 

I think you made a good call on this one.  Kick me when it turns up papered but I wouldn't have gone for this one.  In the end you are training your eye and while a few years from now you will wonder about how little you knew way back then right now this doesn't feel right to you.  Good call.

 

All the best.

[Spartancrest]

  On 7/17/2023 at 4:39 PM, GoldenDrachen said:

I have to stop advertising the good stuff!😁

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No Vitaly you didn't give away the links to the sale so you did the right thing. It is always a good idea to ask if you are unsure, but only give away the minimum information.

Better luck next time, you are heading in the right direction and you are right to set your spending limit. 

[rematron]

  On 7/17/2023 at 6:47 PM, GoldenDrachen said:

To be serious, I wasn't sure that this tsuba could be original Nobuie, to me execution is way tooooo clean, so I thought above pice might be a mid to late Edo period copy, but done by some good craftsman. 

Based on that assumption I placed my price tag on it. Bottom line I would not spend 500 on it.

But then again, I have very little experience and often act on a hunch 

 

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Hi Vitaly.  I was in the same boat myself with this one below.  The difference with mine is that I didn't pay much attention to the mei and didn't even try to translate it.  Actually, I thought it was by someone other than Nobuie as per the seller's posting and I sort of wish that had turned out to be the case.  However, I don't regret buying it at all.  I just liked the tsuba.  I got an opinion from @Spartancrest as to whether or not he thought it was a period piece (sometime before Meiji) or not and then I jumped on it.  He's been a great help to me and others who are beginner collectors.  It was actually up for auction twice.  The first time I was about to nab it for about $200USD but the seller didn't like that and pulled the auction with only 5 minutes left.  A few weeks later they put it back up and I ended up spending about $300USD on it.  Later in the translation thread I was trying to find out what the writing was and only then was I told that the mei was Nobuie.  I guess it's possible that it was a later Nobuie that made it but even if it's a complete forgery, I still like it a lot.  It looks like somebody liked it enough to mount it (or perhaps the sekigane were added to make it look that way) and then someone else had a custom box made for it.  Someday I might send it through shinsa but I'm relatively sure it's a 'tribute' piece or straight up forgery.

 

Anyways, the one you posted and mine have a lot of similarities.  The photo isn't great but I can definitely see strings of kanji carved into it.  I wouldn't be surprised if the same artisan made both of them.  

 

Good job for setting a price limit.  I'm not too great at that. 

 

Incidentally, I saw a NBTHK papered Nobuie on auction last week starting at around $23,000USD.  

 

 

[GoldenDrachen]

  On 7/18/2023 at 4:19 PM, rematron said:

Hi Vitaly.  I was in the same boat myself with this one below.  The difference with mine is that I didn't pay much attention to the mei and didn't even try to translate it.  Actually, I thought it was by someone other than Nobuie as per the seller's posting and I sort of wish that had turned out to be the case.  However, I don't regret buying it at all.  I just liked the tsuba.  I got an opinion from @Spartancrest as to whether or not he thought it was a period piece (sometime before Meiji) or not and then I jumped on it.  He's been a great help to me and others who are beginner collectors.  It was actually up for auction twice.  The first time I was about to nab it for about $200USD but the seller didn't like that and pulled the auction with only 5 minutes left.  A few weeks later they put it back up and I ended up spending about $300USD on it.  Later in the translation thread I was trying to find out what the writing was and only then was I told that the mei was Nobuie.  I guess it's possible that it was a later Nobuie that made it but even if it's a complete forgery, I still like it a lot.  It looks like somebody liked it enough to mount it (or perhaps the sekigane were added to make it look that way) and then someone else had a custom box made for it.  Someday I might send it through shinsa but I'm relatively sure it's a 'tribute' piece or straight up forgery.

 

Anyways, the one you posted and mine have a lot of similarities.  The photo isn't great but I can definitely see strings of kanji carved into it.  I wouldn't be surprised if the same artisan made both of them.  

 

Good job for setting a price limit.  I'm not too great at that. 

 

Incidentally, I saw a NBTHK papered Nobuie on auction last week starting at around $23,000USD.  

 

 

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I totally can relate. Also I think that a chance of getting something reaaaaly cool from the mainstream auctions are extremely slim. Especially from well known sellers.

However often they offer reasonably priced pieces with papers or one can get lucky if item set for an auction.