Type 8/19 company grade? NCO?

[RobCarter3]

Greetings all,

 

Wanted to share this new acquisition for your observation and comment.  This is from the Plimpton collection and is published on pg. 64-65 of SotE as the 6th example of an "Army 1886 NCO Grade (Type 19)."  Plimpton does not explain how he reached this identification and pages 54-65 contain no citation footnotes.  It appears that he is identifying as NCO swords examples with solid guards and undecorated or less-decorated pommels. 

 

A materially identical example is illustrated in Dawson pg. 62-63 (right down to the silvered ferrule/fuchi) as a transitional Type 19 company grade officer sword with a mix of Type 8 and Type 19 characteristics.  According to Dawson, of the six "1886 NCO" swords illustrated in Plimpton, Nos. 1-4 are actually just Type 8 company grade officer swords, and Nos. 5 and 6 are early or transitional Type 19 company grade officer swords. 

 

Dawson seems better supported to me, but wondering what you knowledgeable folks think of the conflicting IDs. 

 

25.5" nagasa, blade is machine-made mumei that appears to be through-hardened and spring tempered.

[RobCarter3]

[lonely panet]

Personally I would say Dawson's is the best and most currant form of information in a book  todate.  I dont have,  nor will i ever buy Plimptons  book. it felt like a plug to increase his sales prices of his collection rather than an attempt to record a usefull information book on IJ swords.

 

Im waiting for the backlash hahahahah

 

To the sword.  IMHO, at best I would discuss this sword as "a transition sword" making it neither or both depending on how you argue your point. but mine would be a late type 8

but personally there some points that worrie me, the lack of matching patina form backstrap to knuckle guard,  the fuchi fit the the guard or to the tsuka fit isnt great. the seppa itself normally has a more proportioned size and shape to the koiguchi of the scabbard.

 

early IJ swords tend to finished well, but we cant discount being a end of production model i could be a rushed to finish before the new model was introduced.

regards H

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Rob,

I agree with you and Hamish.  While Plimpton had an amazing collection, he makes several claims, like you say, without any evidence or explanation. 

[RobCarter3]

Hamish,

 

I was hoping you would weigh in as the resident kyu expert.  My intent with this purchase was to acquire a Type 8 fighting sword or something close to it, so I'll take your "late Type 8" impression all day long. 

 

I agree with all your points about the hodgepodge features of this sword.  I might have passed if the exact same thing wasn't also pictured in Dawson.  Same backstrap with the same non-standard cherry blossom, same silver ferrule, same guard, hard to say from the picture in the book but it looks like there may even be the same guard/backstrap color mismatch.  Whoever made this made at least two of them.  FWIW the one in Dawson appears to mount a proportionally wider blade.