San Francisco Japanese Sword Show

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

I’m better this side of the camera. 😁

Also I generally try and stay a little bit anon online due to my work and also the number of scammers and crooked guys who have stated their desires to “meet me” oneday. I get the occasional threat here. 
@GeorgeLuucas walk in the door, immediately turn right and the last tables in the corner against the right wall. See ya there!

I for one don't want to see your mug I want to see your table you don't have to be standing Behind it...take a picture of your table please.  I know you're in 7th heaven  When you get your head out of the clouds 💖

 

[Stephen]

The two individual shots of Tsuba

 

I can kind of understand that beautiful copper one design of paper what's the last one that is a knockout what's it got to do with the grapes or am I not reading what it says because it's blurry

[Stephen]

Jet lag must have caught up with Boss and crash before you could post the days events

[GeorgeLuucas]

I must say the show was really amazing. Such incredible collections of all types and qualities. I felt especially privileged to see everything on Fred Weissbergs table - the Juyo Awataguchi was a highlight to see in person. Fred was also especially kind, even to a newbie like me 

 

Im mostly full of hyperbole right now, but it was all very overwhelming and amazing to attend! I saw more swords in the last two days than my entire life beforehand 
 

I did not take many photos. I didn’t want to be the young guy in the room glued to his phone. But here’s a few of my favorites. The last couple tsuba I purchased. Hopefully next year I have a bigger budget and can take a blade home!

 

ps. If you ever attend, definitely stay at the Marriott above the event. I stayed at the Hyatt nearby, and there was a 1000 person Swingdancing event hosted the same weekend at the Hyatt  

 

 

[Stephen]

Sounds like you had fun Sam.

So you couldn't find a nanako tsuba to your liking?

[Brian]

Running on empty still. Update more tonight. Yesterday was amazing. Had a great chat with @SteveM over a beer. Awesome guy and we really need to appreciate the work our members do for us on translations and info etc.
Show was great. @Stephen that description belongs to the tsuba above, out of the shot.
That dealer, new to the show and most of us, is called Gallery youyou ( www.galleryyouyou.com ) and Itoh san is THE guy for Higo. He literally wrote the book. He has rows abd rows of the highest level level of all the Higo masters. 3 x Nobuie etc etc etc. Best display I can imagine anywhere right now. I'll try and take some pics today. Great and freindly people. But prices are appropriate for the level of work.
Off to the show now, post more tonight.

[GeorgeLuucas]

32 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Sounds like you had fun Sam.

So you couldn't find a nanako tsuba to your liking?

I had a blast! I found a few that would have been perfect, but unfortunately, with my wedding on the horizon, they were outside my budget

 

Although I was able to meet Brian (don’t know spelling on last name) who makes shirasaya near me. So I might go that route, and afterward send my blade to a togishi for evaluation. I can worry about the matching tsuba later, when I know a bit more about the blade 

 

Until then, I’m happy to keep shopping around! Coincidentally I’ve developed a liking to Kirimon

 

 

[Vermithrax16]

I'll post more when I get home, leaving soon. Great time and saw plenty. Too much to take in really. Met @GeorgeLuucas and he's a good guy.

[Brian]

It was amazing meeting all of you. I had the time of my life.
Thank you to all who spent some time chatting, you guys are amazing. More later, dinner then I need to crash.

[Steve Waszak]

Spoiler

Great meeting you, Brian.  Really enjoyed our chat, and thanks so much again for the "switchblade"...    Hope to meet up with you again one day, either back in San Francisco, or there in South Africa, while I'm out and about visiting the best boerboel breeders.     So glad you had a great time here!

 

[GeorgeLuucas]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:00 AM, Vermithrax16 said:

I'll post more when I get home, leaving soon. Great time and saw plenty. Too much to take in really. Met @GeorgeLuucas and he's a good guy.

Likewise! Great meeting you

I hope to attend next year also. Maybe i'll get to meet some more members then

-Sam

[Toryu2020]

It was great to have Brian there, and even though I was right next to his table I didn't get to meet many of you all. That being said it is very gratifying to hear that everyone had a good show. Check our Facebook page for my photos...

 

https://www.facebook...on_generic&ref=notif

 

 

-t

[Soshin]

On 8/6/2023 at 10:42 AM, Brian said:

That dealer, new to the show and most of us, is called Gallery youyou ( www.galleryyouyou.com ) and Itoh san is THE guy for Higo. He literally wrote the book.

 

Well technically he wrote three books. One book covers the Hayashi and Kamiyoshi Schools, another book is for the Nishigaki School, and third book covers the Shimizu and Hirata Schools.  So happy you were able to meet Itoh-sensei and see his display at the San Francisco show this year. I can imagine how great the display was in person, and the few photos I have seen of the display looked awesome. I am also glad you had such a fun time at the San Francisco show.   

[Stephen]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:01 AM, Soshin said:

That dealer, new to the show and most of us, is called Gallery youyou ( www.galleryyouyou.com ) and Itoh san is THE guy for Higo. He literally wrote the book.

Tsubas the price of a house or fine sports car . 

[Soshin]

21 hours ago, Stephen said:

Tsubas the price of a house or fine sports car . 

 

@Stephen, this is why the event is called a show. With all due respect sometimes, it is not about buying, it is just a chance to see great pieces with permission in hand (i.e. not on a computer screen or book) that will never be part of my personal collection. I wish I could have made it to the show this year.    

[Stephen]

54 minutes ago, Soshin said:

 

@Stephen, this is why the event is called a show. With all due respect sometimes, it is not about buying, it is just a chance to see great pieces with permission in hand (i.e. not on a computer screen or book) that will never be part of my personal collection. I wish I could have made it to the show this year.    

Just the evil socialist in me sir.

Doctors don't deserve million dollar income. Artifacts from history should not be Held in ransom for the rich elite, all bull s*** mate.

 

That's why it's called a show, really?

[Matsunoki]

OK, I anticipate a hail of lead coming my way but I can’t help it,  I’ve just got to ask…..

Why is the tsuba pictured below classed as Juyo?…..on what grounds? The maker? The subject matter? The quality? The age? The historical context?

The price is truly stunning but we are all free to ask what the heck we like for things so that’s fair enough…..no-one is forced to buy it but I’m really struggling to understand. I’ve handled metalwork works of art by Natsuo, Shomin, Ozeki et al that were astounding and yet cost far less than this tsuba would.

Is it really all because of a piece of paper?

OK, I’m ready🙂

 

 

 

[Gakusee]

41 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

OK, I anticipate a hail of lead coming my way but I can’t help it,  I’ve just got to ask…..

Why is the tsuba pictured below classed as Juyo?…..on what grounds? The maker? The subject matter? The quality? The age? The historical context?

The price is truly stunning but we are all free to ask what the heck we like for things so that’s fair enough…..no-one is forced to buy it but I’m really struggling to understand. I’ve handled metalwork works of art by Natsuo, Shomin, Ozeki et al that were astounding and yet cost far less than this tsuba would.

Is it really all because of a piece of paper?

OK, I’m ready🙂

 

 

 

 

Colin, yes the price is staggering to me too but you are referring to the appropriate elements above, which undoubtedly influence the price. Rarity, maker, age etc. 
 

By the way, genuine large Natsuo tsuba (is of this size) cost more than that. I am afraid there are too many Natsuo fakes and as far as I know there are no genuine, certified Natsuo in the U.K. I have seen quite a few good imitations, even in U.K. museums, but I am sceptical, as are some people who specialise in Natsuo. 

[Matsunoki]

9 minutes ago, Gakusee said:

By the way, genuine large Natsuo tsuba (is of this size) cost more than that. I

Michael, hello again.

Just to be clear, my mention of Shomin etc relate to works of art by those artists that had passed through my hands, not tsuba.  The Shomin was a small understated koro, the Natsuo was a small box and the Ozeki was a massive solid silver vase…..all cost less and sold for less than the tsuba in question. I just cannot position this tsuba even close to any of those items in terms of workmanship and artistry. But I guess I am comparing apples and pears!

Yes , there are many dubious Natsuo tsuba kicking around…..mostly with Koi on them. However most of them are still excellent workmanship, they just lack that last 10% of something intangible that a genuine piece would have.

I am beginning to wish I had never sold my collection of Meiji “Art Tsuba”…..hindsight etc.

[GeorgeLuucas]

1 hour ago, Matsunoki said:

OK, I anticipate a hail of lead coming my way but I can’t help it,  I’ve just got to ask…..

Why is the tsuba pictured below classed as Juyo?…..on what grounds? The maker? The subject matter? The quality? The age? The historical context?

The price is truly stunning but we are all free to ask what the heck we like for things so that’s fair enough…..no-one is forced to buy it but I’m really struggling to understand. I’ve handled metalwork works of art by Natsuo, Shomin, Ozeki et al that were astounding and yet cost far less than this tsuba would.

Is it really all because of a piece of paper?

OK, I’m ready🙂

 

 

 

While I certainly can't fathom the price tag (even more than the Juyo Awataguchi!)

But pictures of this tsuba really don't do it justice. The fine detail, color, and condition really stood-out in person

I didn't handle it, because of fear ; but it was a really fabulous item

If only I could win the lottery...

[Stephen]

Years ago I balked at 30K tsuba,

Then I got Educated I have no problem with 5 figures when they get mid 6 figures I still call BS.

One will not educate me on that.!!!

 

If you would spend that kind of money. I got some property in the badlands. I'm sure it's got oil under it.

[Steve Waszak]

I think what has to be recognized is the critical importance of context.  Hirata Hikozo worked directly for Hosokawa Takaoki (Sansai), a highly significant figure in Japanese history.  Futher, Hikozo was the elder tsubako among the "Big Four" Higo tsuba smiths (Shimizu Jimbei, Nishigaki Kanshiro, and Hayashi Matashichi being the others) that all worked for Tadaoki, and later, under his son.  The combination of this hugely important history and the stupendous skill (and talent) and aesthetic sensibilities of Hikozo (for my money, easily the finest soft-metal tsubako ever) brings his tsuba to this level (and price point).  The context in which much later artists worked was radically different, and was so far removed from the times when the Buke were active as warriors that their works must be regarded in this light.  Hikozo died in 1635, which means he was born and lived his formative years in the brilliance, drama, and high tension of the Azuchi-Momoyama Period.  All the cultural magnificence and political strife of this era constituted his milieu.  

 

A tsubako working at this time, for such an extremely important figure as Hosokawa Tadaoki, creates a contextual "magic" that the tsubako of the later, much more sedate  Edo years don't enjoy.  For me, personally, this context is everything.  While artists like Natsuo and Goto Ichijo are brilliant in their technical mastery of material, the context in which they lived -- including a far lesser actively functional and semiotic importance of the sword and its fittings -- means that their work can't be regarded in the same way as that of Hikozo and others of the greatest tsubako of the Azuchi-Momoyama and very early-Edo Periods.  

 

The above just expresses my personal viewpoint toward simply saying that I understand the regard in which the tsuba in question is held, and why it would command the price it does. 

 

One other note in response to Stephen:  I certainly can understand your feelings about six-figure tsuba.  But considered in another light, if we view the very finest tsuba (including their contexts, of course) as pinnacle expressions of sculptural art in world history (which they are), and when we remember what sorts of sums highly-regarded Western artists (e.g. van Gogh, etc...) realize at auction, it could actually be argued that a $100,000 Kaneiye or Nobuiye tsuba is a bargain.  But I digress here into philosophical rabbit holes concerning (relative) values of works of art...

 

 

[Baba Yaga]

16 minutes ago, Steve Waszak said:

I think what has to be recognized is the critical importance of context.  Hirata Hikozo worked directly for Hosokawa Takaoki (Sansai), a highly significant figure in Japanese history.  Futher, Hikozo was the elder tsubako among the "Big Four" Higo tsuba smiths (Shimizu Jimbei, Nishigaki Kanshiro, and Hayashi Matashichi being the others) that all worked for Tadaoki, and later, under his son.  The combination of this hugely important history and the stupendous skill (and talent) and aesthetic sensibilities of Hikozo (for my money, easily the finest soft-metal tsubako ever) brings his tsuba to this level (and price point).  The context in which much later artists worked was radically different, and was so far removed from the times when the Buke were active as warriors that their works must be regarded in this light.  Hikozo died in 1635, which means he was born and lived his formative years in the brilliance, drama, and high tension of the Azuchi-Momoyama Period.  All the cultural magnificence and political strife of this era constituted his milieu.  

 

A tsubako working at this time, for such an extremely important figure as Hosokawa Tadaoki, creates a contextual "magic" that the tsubako of the later, much more sedate  Edo years don't enjoy.  For me, personally, this context is everything.  While artists like Natsuo and Goto Ichijo are brilliant in their technical mastery of material, the context in which they lived -- including a far lesser actively functional and semiotic importance of the sword and its fittings -- means that their work can't be regarded in the same way as that of Hikozo and others of the greatest tsubako of the Azuchi-Momoyama and very early-Edo Periods.  

 

The above just expresses my personal viewpoint toward simply saying that I understand the regard in which the tsuba in question is held, and why it would command the price it does. 

 

One other note in response to Stephen:  I certainly can understand your feelings about six-figure tsuba.  But considered in another light, if we view the very finest tsuba (including their contexts, of course) as pinnacle expressions of sculptural art in world history (which they are), and when we remember what sorts of sums highly-regarded Western artists (e.g. van Gogh, etc...) realize at auction, it could actually be argued that a $100,000 Kaneiye or Nobuiye tsuba is a bargain.  But I digress here into philosophical rabbit holes concerning (relative) values of works of art...

 

 

 

The price is what we call crazy money. The seller sets the price so high *but really doesn't want to sell. If someone wants to pay the crazy price well...... Besides, Yen is .69 today. 

[Stephen]

I understand Steve bit of time in the Art game.

It's all Relative.

[Stephen]

6 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

 

The price is what we call crazy money. The seller sets the price so high *but really doesn't want to sell. If someone wants to pay the crazy price well...... Besides, Yen is .69 today. 

Wait are those prices in ¥¿

[Matsunoki]

8 minutes ago, Steve Waszak said:

I think what has to be recognized is the critical importance of context. 

Steve, hello from the UK.

Thank you for a very thought provoking and interesting reply.

I tend to look at all Japanese metalwork from the perspective of the Meiji period (it’s what I dealt in) when without doubt, the finest “technical” metal art was created by artists whose mastery of multi metal inlay and patination has never been and never will equalled (except for @Ford Hallam)…in my opinion.

 

So I am definitely attempting to compare apples and pears…..the context is indeed very different.

 

What I really take from your reply is that this piece received Juyo mostly because of the context and historical circumstances  that prevailed at that time. I do find that slightly puzzling…..Mostly because I look at the quality of the object itself and for Juyo I would expect to be dazzled and this tsuba (to my Meiji eyes) does not remotely do that.

Having said that (and I am not looking to be combative) I am being slowly lured into the dark world of iron tsuba and can sense my appreciation and taste changing somewhat!

 

One question I would pose to the forum ……if we saw this tsuba on a stand at a show or fair with no supporting papers, no nice box etc, just sitting there with a price tag of $2500……how many would buy it? My lack of knowledge would lead me straight past it.

Again thank you for making me challenge myself🙂

All the best. Colin

 

 

[DTM72]

I spy with my little eye some (recently) hard to find Naval kyugunto. 

[Stephen]

25 minutes ago, DTM72 said:

I spy with my little eye some (recently) hard to find Naval kyugunto. 

Better eye than I

[Stephen]

OK OK I deserve to be fully  Reprimanded.

340,000 Japanese Yen equals

Follow

2,350.90 United States Dollar

Aug 10, 5:52 PM UTC · Disclaimer

I missed the Yen sign.

Going to my room and not coming Out until tomorrow.

 

[Toryu2020]

for 2500 I would buy it in a heart beat...

What doesn't show in the photos is all the work in the odawara fukurin - textbook work dripping with the tea-taste of the age of Daimyo. I would say it got Juyo for its workmanship and condition plus the context of its manufacture but not because of it.

 

for comparison

JÛYÔ TSUBA BY HIRATA HIKOZÔ 平田彦三 080819 - NIHONTO

 

-t