Early Edo katana - all comments appreciated

[MarkP01]

Hello guys,

 

I am a newcomer to this forum. The amount of information and helpfulness of other is really great here. Anyway, I bought a katana recently and I am curious to learn more about the blade and the koshirae (the seller couldn't provide a more detailed insight). What would you say about their condition and quality?

 

Early analysis indicate an early Edo period blade - is it possible that saya and tsuka ito is from that period also? They look rather new.

 

• Mei: Sagami no kami Fujiwara Hiroshige
• NBTHK Hozon certificate

 

I've found some info about the swordsmith on this forum, on the web and in the book. In the ''The connoisseur's book of Japanese sword'' I've found a section about the Shitahara school, where Hiroshige is mentioned and there is a description of school's sugata, jihada, hamon, boshi, horimono and nakago.

 

For now I am not thinking about selling, but maybe in the future I will and buy another one.

 

Thanks in advance,

Marko

 

[Geraint]

Dear Marco.

 

Welcome to NMB!  Well, it's a nice sword in polish and with papers which is a really good start.  It seems to be ubu, also good.  You have got some information about the school and so you will be able to relate what is written with what you can see in your sword which is an excellent way to start to understand the terms.  

 

The koshirae is highly unlikely to be the original assuming your date is accurate.  More photographs showing the fittings in more detail will help to answer that question but from what we can see at the moment I would guess that it is quite recent.  Does the sword come with shirasaya?  If so then best to store it in that.

 

An overall photograph of the whole blade without the habaki will be useful but the sugata appears to be quite indicative of it's age.  You might try a picture of the NBTHK paper in the translation section in case it gives any more indication of which generation forged your sword.

 

All the best.

[Jon]

I did see another picture of  sword from this smith, the Mei looks the same ( from my very inexperienced eye). The smith would seem to be second/third generation Hiroshige , Kanbun Period, 1661-1673, FujishiroRanking: Chu Saku, Hawley Ranking: 15 points. Bushu (Tokyo and Saitama) Shitahara school. Province was Musashi ( Tokyo) Kanbun (1661-1673) era.

 

from what I could find out it was the second generation Hiroshige that got the district title Sagami-no-kami.

 

district title:  Sagami-no-kami 相模守

clan Fujiwara 藤原

But then again it could all be completely wrong…but from looking that’s what I could find.

[MarkP01]

3 hours ago, Geraint said:

Dear Marco.

 

Welcome to NMB!  Well, it's a nice sword in polish and with papers which is a really good start.  It seems to be ubu, also good.  You have got some information about the school and so you will be able to relate what is written with what you can see in your sword which is an excellent way to start to understand the terms.  

 

The koshirae is highly unlikely to be the original assuming your date is accurate.  More photographs showing the fittings in more detail will help to answer that question but from what we can see at the moment I would guess that it is quite recent.  Does the sword come with shirasaya?  If so then best to store it in that.

 

An overall photograph of the whole blade without the habaki will be useful but the sugata appears to be quite indicative of it's age.  You might try a picture of the NBTHK paper in the translation section in case it gives any more indication of which generation forged your sword.

 

All the best.

Dear Geraint,

thank you very much for your detailed response. Regarding the koshirae, yes, I suppose it was made recently. I’m not sure about the fuchi, menuki and habaki though. I’m attaching the photos, so feel free to comment if you have anything to add. The sword did not come with shirasaya.

 

It seems that the NBTHK paper does not go into detail about the period.

[MarkP01]

23 minutes ago, Jon said:

I did see another picture of  sword from this smith, the Mei looks the same ( from my very inexperienced eye). The smith would seem to be second/third generation Hiroshige , Kanbun Period, 1661-1673, FujishiroRanking: Chu Saku, Hawley Ranking: 15 points. Bushu (Tokyo and Saitama) Shitahara school. Province was Musashi ( Tokyo) Kanbun (1661-1673) era.

 

from what I could find out it was the second generation Hiroshige that got the district title Sagami-no-kami.

 

district title:  Sagami-no-kami 相模守

clan Fujiwara 藤原

But then again it could all be completely wrong…but from looking that’s what I could find.

Dear Jonathan,

 

thanks a lot for the information. Yes, I found out similar history. But, I haven't found out what ''sagami-no-kami'' title means, could you please explain?

[MarkP01]

One more question and one more information:

 

In my inexperienced eye, the boshi is not pronounced, it's only slightly visible. What does it usually mean? 

 

Below is the excerpt from the aforementioned book - I've noticed some correspondence with the sword.

[Grevedk]

Good evening and welcome to the board Marco,

 

38 minutes ago, MarkP01 said:

Dear Jonathan,

 

thanks a lot for the information. Yes, I found out similar history. But, I haven't found out what ''sagami-no-kami'' title means, could you please explain?

 

The honorary title of “Sagami no Kami” is comprised of both a province (Sagami) and the word for a deity (kind of protective guardian), and could therefore probably be seen as “ protector or guardian of Sagami province”. I believe it was also bestowed on  provincial governors or samurai in higher office like military commanders.

 

The link shows many of the different honorary titles that where bestowed during the Edo period.

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/titles.htm

 

Some of our more knowledgeable members might be able to either correct or expand on this post.

 

All the best

 

Soren

[SteveM]

2 hours ago, Grevedk said:

Sagami no Kami” is comprised of both a province (Sagami) and the word for a deity (kind of protective guardian)

 

The first half is right. The second half is slightly wrong. The "kami" in Sagami-no-kami (守) doesn't mean deity, but it did originally mean "protect". However in this context it is a title. It was an official government position, like governor. But by the Edo era, the title really was just ceremonial, and had no connection to political power or authority. So in this case it means something like "Lord of Sagami". Actually, the person doesn't even need a connection to the province. He can be proclaimed "Lord of Sagami" without ever having set foot in Sagami. 

 

More great info here

https://markussesko....tles-were-conferred/

 

 

 

 

[MarkP01]

Thanks to everyone for providing such useful info and links.

 

The last question: are the small dots on the photo nie or rust? Their color appears to be slightly brownish/reddish. If it's rust, is it possible to get rid of it in a noninvasive way?

[2devnul]

16 minutes ago, MarkP01 said:

Thanks to everyone for providing such useful info and links.

 

The last question: are the small dots on the photo nie or rust? Their color appears to be slightly brownish/reddish. If it's rust, is it possible to get rid of it in a noninvasive way?

 

 

Hi, it looks like rust and a lot of it. I'm using lightly abrasive polishing paste (like the one from picture) to get rid of the rust. Although I never used it on historical Nihonto only on modern one to get rid a small bit of rust. 

[2devnul]

 

This small rust was gone after one minute of polishing. But it was modern steel. 

[Brian]

Do not use ANYTHING abrasive on genuine swords. Not even pastes.
Oil it, wipe gently, re-oil..over a period of a few days

[Jon]

4 hours ago, MarkP01 said:

it's rust, is it possible to get rid of it in a noninvasive way?

 
Don’t ever use anything on a blade in Polish, all you should ever do is oil it. There are lots of threads on cleaning and maintaining blades. But the general consensus is

 

1) remove old oil using  the highest quality micro fibre cloth you can find, this should be a high end lens cleaning cloth NO a cheapo general cleaning cloth..in the US people suggest Microdear..but for Europeans like us the best option seems to be Zeiss. If you use the cloth and wipe the sword with isopropyl (IPA) 99%….do not use UCHIKO powder as unless you’re trained to use it as you can scratch the blade.

2) then using a lint free cotton apply your new thin coat of oil, you should not see any beading…it should really be invisible.