Hankei sword on eBay

[cisco-san]

Hallo,

 

I saw a few days ago a Hankei sword on eBay --> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3D1&_rdc=1

 

I am not sure about this Hankei sword. There is also a NBTHK certificate?!

 

Btw. Does a NBTHK certificate confirm that is it made by the sword smith Hankei or just that it is signed Hankei even if it is a gimei?

 

 

Many thanks

Klaus Schicker

[paulb]

The NBTHK Cetficiate is one of their older "blue papers" which between the 1950s and 80s was, I think, the level just below Juyo. I dont think these papers are particularly common. The NBTHKs reputation suffered during the 70s and up to the early 80s with accussaions of fraud and papering swords for special "clients" As a result there was a major clean up and the current papering system introduced.

Because of this and because research has also moved on in the following years older papers are regarded as unreliable when compared to modern ones. I am not convinced this is altogether fair as I would suspect that the vast majority of the older papers, particularly those dealing with such well known and documented smiths as Hankei are more likely to be accurrate. There is also a fairly vocal school of thought that believe it was harder to achieve Juyo papers in the 50s and 60s than it is today. I have no view either way on that as I have insufficient experience in seeing such blades.

With regard to you second point. If the NBTHK paper a signed blade they are saying they believe it is a genuine work and signature of the smith concerned.

They will not paper gimei blades.

 

hope this helps

Paul

[Wim V]

Hello,

 

If I were you I would try to compare the signature on this blade with (oshigata of) known authentic examples, like you can find for example in Fujishiro or Nihonto Zuikan.

 

I don't pretend to be a specialist on signatures but for one time this one seems very obvious to me: gimei.

 

The kanji to me look rather different compared to the examples in the books. Also, if I remember correctly, Hankei is one of the few smiths who engraved his signature, rather than hammering it in with a chisel. If you look at authentic mei, the inside of the strokes will be rather smooth as a result of the engraving method, whereas in the case of the blade on ebay you can see burrs (like you see normally on most mei, but not on those of Hankei).

 

Concerning the papers I think you should keep the possibility in mind that papers can be forged. If you take a look at the paper in question you will see that the style of handwriting is different in the parts where the blade is described compared with the standard text parts. I personally have old (tokubetsu kicho) papers in my collection of which I am rather sure that they are genuine, and on these the style of writing is everywhere the same. When seeing obvious differences in hand writing I would be very suspicious.

 

And lastly (actually this should be first of all), the blade should speak for itself. From the bit of experience I have, I believe a Hankei blade should display a very prominent hada with lots of dark chikei lines, aiming at Norishige. I have seen one Hankei in hand and I don't feel the blade on ebay comes even close to this one. Just my thoughts.

 

Greetings,

 

Wim

[Tokaido]

Hello Klaus,

please be aware that Hankei is a VERY famous smith from the early shinto period.

Do you think a Japan based dealer would offer a sword signed "Hankei" for the price of a middle class shinsakuto if there would be a single grain of salt the possibility of beeing a genuine Hankei (and fetching a price 30 time the ebay price)? Of course not.

Like Wim suggested before, look at the sword and compare the shown features with the known features of genuine specimen.

This one: Shape is wrong, hada is wrong, hamon is wrong, deki is wrong, nakago looks like made yesterday morning and carefully *aged*, so little chance that this one is a genuine Hankei, judged from the pics.

 

Greetings.

Andreas

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

Gimei 100%

Hankei engraved his mei he did'nt chisel them. This one is chiseled. The nakago jiri does not match etc.

Now, i've never seen a shoshin mei on this site.

[Ted Tenold]

There is one very critical common characteristic of a Hankei mei that must be considered when comparing works. This one does not illustrate it. Can anyone comment on it?

 

Hint: It can be difficult to tell from oshigatas.

 

 

The vast majority of Hankei mei are literally carved in by cleanly removing metal with a cutting tool, instead of inscribing with a chisel which displaces metal to the sides and also leaves the "chatter" marks along the strokes. There are only a rare few documented Hankei works that are incised instead of carved.

 

 

*Edit*: Jacques beat me to the submit button, however there are a rare few known incised works on record at the NBTHK.

 

There are also a few fairly distinctive features of Hankei's shape that are characteristic of his works. Are they in this one?

[paulb]

Ted,

Based on the view expressed by most that this is gimei do you believe the accompanying papers are fake, doctored or an example of the questionable papers I refered to in my earlier post?

[Ted Tenold]

Let me just say this first; Personally, for what my own opinion is worth, there's a lot of things about the sword that do not equate it to what I regard as genuine Hankei work. Given this, the papers are dead to me with no further consideration. Hey, that's just me. For anyone reading, go to the books, read the descriptions, search the net, and make your own judgments. Here's one: http://www.nihonto.us/HANKEI%20WAKIZASHI.htm

 

Therefore, I wouldn't use others' opinions about it's "gimei-ness" to judge the papers. The merit of the papers lay with the NBTHK and the confidence in the sword lay in the willingness of the seller to stand by it as genuine. The only real way of determining if the papers are righteous is to submit them with the sword for upgrade. If the papers are good *and* the sword is good, there's no reason it should not upgrade to current papers. If the sword is no good, the old papers won't matter anyways and the reply will be "no upgrade". 'Nuff said.

 

Just because papers have an old date, does not mean they weren't printed last year, last week, or yesterday. If forging bank notes can be convincingly accomplished, then forging papers isn't really a super-human challenge, especially with home and office printer technology being what it is.

[cisco-san]

Dear all,

 

many thanks for your comments.

As I saw this sword on eBay I was confused --> Hankei, NBTHK paper and this price ?! The first thought was "this must be a gimei". Before I posted this I tried to compared the mei as well and came to a similar result but now I have a clear picture.

 

kind greetings

Klaus Schicker

[cisco-san]

Now the price is 1000,- USD

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3D1&_rdc=1

 

cheers

Klaus Schicker

[Stephen]

use the kami in the benjo and remove the mei...ya got a nice sword

[Kajihei]

Hi All,

 

You should ask the seller if he thinks the mei is genuine. Knowing this seller, I think he will give you a straight answer. I remember him listing a sword some time ago saying, "I guarantee this is gimei. If it turns out to be genuine, I will gladly take it back and give you full refund." At first thought I misread this statement, then I realized this is his style of humor. :lol:

 

Kaji

[cisco-san]

use the kami in the benjo and remove the mei...ya got a nice sword

 

 

I fully agree with you

 

Klaus Schicker