Doubt... should I discard this one?

[GoldenDrachen]

Hello gentlemen,

 

Forgive me my stubbornness, but before I will make a final decision on this one, I would like to get more options on this tsuba.

I have posted it before here

At that time there were no much comments on it , just explanation on the motif.

On the Facebook I have received suggestion that this tsuba is modern copy.

My concern: why would one fit silver fukurin onto a copy? 

Are there obvious signs of this one being cast?

If this a cast copy why there are no more similar ones on the market?

I just really would like to get more options before it goes on iaito.

 

Thank you in advance

Vitaly 

 

[GRC]

Hi Vitaly,

 

I'm leaning toward cast copy (99% certain)... but sometimes images can give the wrong impression though.

I'm guessing the fukurin was probably added to:

1- dress it up a little and make it look more "fancy", and...

2- maybe hide some casting flaws on the outside of the mimi (because the inside of the mimi also looks pretty messy in one area... so maybe there are more flaws elsewhere)

 

In the zoomed-in image below, it looks like there's a clear mid-line seam along the thin sukashi, and the "inside corner" of the sukashi at the bottom right looks too "globby", rough and irregular to have been done by a chisel.

There are other areas that show a hint of a mid-line seam but they are darker and less focused.  

 

...and this part is too messy... looks like all of it is best explained by casting flaws (rather than corrosion of some kind).

 

All the "bevels" along the majority of the sukashi edges also makes me think this was cast.  

 

... and of course, this is all just my opinion. 

[rematron]

Hi Vitaly.  I am a novice.  This does not look cast to me.  I wouldn't expect the sukashi to be quite as thin/fine on a cast specimen even though the carved details are a bit simple and unrefined.  And, along with you, I find the addition of fukurin (although I believe these are copper) to be good evidence of a quality piece.  I could absolutely be wrong.  The iron underneath the mimi on the kogai hitsu-ana side does look a little suspect, but that could easily be a forging flaw.  The nakago-ana looks crisp.  Though, there is sort of a 'muddy' aspect overall. 

 

That said, this is a piece I personally would shy away from because of there being any doubt.  

 

I'm very curious to see what others more knowledgeable than me say.

[Larason2]

I think it could be cast. There's just too many midline defects in the cutouts that look like they are flash. Also, there is the appearance of hammering along the edge of the nakago ana, but they didn't actually move any metal in. The attention to detail is also lacking, uneven cutting around the cutouts, most of the piece is in one plane, poor definition on the plants. The bevels on the cutouts are all different and don't look intentional. The gap around the bottom sekigane doesn't make sense - usually cutouts are square, and the copper is forged into it perfectly. The mimi doesn't have facets, which is a sign it was hammered. So overall, it is not a high quality piece. If you like it though, it could be a good piece for you!

[Spartancrest]

Some sloppy workmanship with it, that inside rim is really odd. The circled area is poorly defined. There may be an explanation on the lack of metal moved into the nakago-ana - if the tagane-ato was old and the hole was filed wider later?

[Bugyotsuji]

Could it have had some fire damage on the left, where the mimi is very thin, and is there even evidence of a mimi crack/break near the bottom of Dale's red box above? If so, that could explain the necessity for a fukurin, in an effort to save the tsuba?

[Geraint]

Dear Vitaly.

 

Well, cast or not, this tsuba is probably dead to you now.  It's easy to collect, or perhaps the word should be to amass tsuba but sooner or later you are going to find that some of what you have stops speaking to you.  Carlos used the term muddy to describe this one and I have to agree, the bevels around the sukashi and the lack of surety in the design, cast or not, make this one problematic.  As you hold this tsuba in your hand what do you feel?  If you don't get a buzz then it's probably not worth keeping.  I have taken a chance on some tsuba and as soon as they arrive I know I made a mistake and I am never going to love it.

 

You asked for opinions and now you have them what do you feel when you hold this tsuba?

 

Sorry, very random thoughts to do with as you please.

 

All the best.

[GoldenDrachen]

@GRC, @rematron, @Larason2, @Spartancrest, @Bugyotsuji, @Geraint  Thank you so much for your  comments and answers! I really appreciate it!

 

Although this tsuba is damaged and has some imperfection, she does appeal to me. It feels very good in my hands. (someone, in the past, tried to save it, I guess I should too)

Perhaps not so perfect for display, but definitely will get practical use. 

 

Kind regards

Vitaly

 

 

 

 

[rematron]

4 hours ago, Geraint said:

Carlos used the term muddy to describe this one and I have to agree, the bevels around the sukashi and the lack of surety in the design, cast or not, make this one problematic.

Well, that was me but thank you. 

[Spartancrest]

10 hours ago, GoldenDrachen said:

she does appeal to me.

That is all that really counts in the end! 

[Geraint]

Dear Jeremy.

 

My apologies!  Good observation on this tsuba I thought.

 

All the best.

[GRC]

Perhaps this one is from the same producer?

Cast, plus fukurin.

Also, I noticed, the guy's head fell off (bottom left, just under the hitsu-ana). 

[rematron]

Yeah. Hahaha. He’s got a foot but no hands or head.  He’s gonna have a hard time getting around like that.
 

 Is “fukurin” also the name of the soft metal cover on the mini as well as the inserts in the nakago-ana? 

[Brian]

Inserts are sekigane

[rematron]

On 6/7/2023 at 11:08 AM, rematron said:

And, along with you, I find the addition of fukurin (although I believe these are copper) to be good evidence of a quality piece.

Ah, Damnit. Thanks, Brian. Once again, I’m mixing up my terminology and showing my green skin but that’s fitting since I’m indeed green. 
 

So, for the record, in the above quote, I meant sekigane (not fukurin). 
 

I’m gonna go sit in the corner with my dunce cap on for a while. Haha. 

[Spartancrest]

12 hours ago, GRC said:

the guy's head fell off

Plenty of lost heads on the ground somewhere - and I bet the faces aren't smiling. 

 

[Kurikata]

Dear all,

 

I am the new owner of this omodaka tsuba sold by Vitaly. It has suffured a lot that's not the question. Definitivly it is an end of Edo tsuba, not cast, having suffured from fire and restaured with a fukurin to reinforce the mimi. It makes me think of kintsugi consisting in reparing with gold lacquer precious poteries.

 

I like it very much! 

[Bugyotsuji]

Which Vitaly is that Bruno?
CANCEL

(Not the Ukrainian one I was thinking about!)

[Kurikata]

@GoldenDrachen from Ireland.