Another newbie, another sword

[Thomas-J2]

I have what I believe to be a "Satsuma Rebellion" Sword, The Tsuba appears to be Ko-Nara, but I really do not know anything else about it. How do I know if a sword is worth polishing? Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Regards,

Thomas

[outlier48]

Hi Thomas - Is it possible to get clearer pics, including close up of both sides of the tsuba, nakago, kissaki, hamon, etc? I am also a newbie and love following others in their quest for information about their blades and koshirae. Also, I am curious as to what leads you to believe this blade is from the time of the Satsuma Rebellion?

 

Charlie

[Thomas-J2]

maybe these will be a little better, my apologies, I suck with a camera.

[reinhard]

This koshirae is an assembly of parts not fitting the blade properly. Nevertheless it is a textbook example representing Western attempts of quickly reassembling Koshirae with any kind of stuff at hand. - There is empty space between Fuchi and Same/Tsuka-Ito as well as between Habaki and Tsuba. Furthermore Habaki (and blade) are way off the centre of the Tsuba/Tsuka. Japanese craftsmen never worked like this, not even in "cases of emergency" such as the Satsuma rebellion. You better focus on the blade and forget about Koshirae.

 

reinhard

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

As told by Reinhard, the koshirae doesn't fit the blade properly.

The empty space between Habaki and Tsuba could be explained by the missing seppa.

The tsuka is very "strange". Fuchi too small, no kashira, menuku under full wrapping ito ...

Nevertheless habaki is nice

 

This koshirae doesn't looks like Satsuma rebellion one. Such koshirae are more basic, no patern on fuchi kashira and tsuba, ito wrapping different, ...

 

Regarding, the blade it is difficult to tell anything with this photo. What is the state of the blade ?

Does hada / hamon are visible ?

 

Sebastien

[IanB]

Gentlemen,

Let us step back a little. Yes the fuchi does not fit and has been added and obviously the seppa would fill the gap. The habaki on the other had does seem to fit and would appear to be of reasonable quality. What intrigues me is the hilt. Some years ago I bought a tachi koshirae from the defunct Tokyo Sword Fittings Museum described in the catalogue as a 19th C. copy of a Momoyama koshirae (I personally think it is much older but that is another matter). That too has the menuki completely concealed by the same style of binding. Judging by the photo of the whole hilt, it looks as if it may have been mounted in a handachi style with lacquered braid ito.

Ian Bottomley

[Stephen]

I don't know, look in the first photo the fuchi seems to be up next to the Ito, without seppa everything's gapped, photos sometimes tell us a lot but can deceive, agree with Ian better than average habaki. Very easy to trash based on photos, lets be careful out there guys.

[Thomas-J2]

I respectfully thank everyone for their comments. I agree this sword was, I am sure, compromised by westerners at some point either throwing things together or all missing parts. The only thing I know about swords it what I have gleened here off of the web. I do think it is a very neat item and I am really trying to learn anything I can about it. I welcome all criticism and comments. I am not interested in selling the sword, I am interested in possibly having it restored. If anyone here with a good reputation would like to see it and give me their opinion I would happily pay freight both ways and have you look at it. Any suggestions on this?

 

Regards,

Thomas

[loiner1965]

I respectfully thank everyone for their comments. I agree this sword was, I am sure, compromised by westerners at some point either throwing things together or all missing parts. The only thing I know about swords it what I have gleened here off of the web. I do think it is a very neat item and I am really trying to learn anything I can about it. I welcome all criticism and comments. I am not interested in selling the sword, I am interested in possibly having it restored. If anyone here with a good reputation would like to see it and give me their opinion I would happily pay freight both ways and have you look at it. Any suggestions on this?

 

Regards,

Thomas

where abouts in the world are you as the member who posted about you is a great and very helful indeed......also vastly experienced

[Thomas-J2]

My apologies, I am located in West Texas.

[loiner1965]

ask stephen if you can send him better pictures or arrange something between yourselves

[Jean]

Reinhard wrote :

it is a textbook example representing Western attempts

 

As textbook, I have seen a lot of Japanese similar attempts so I would not put the blame on Westerners (In fact I even got one but I was buying the blade). If not convinced, just have a look at some NMB topics about Japanese swords at e-bay auctions.

[Thomas-J2]

ilt. Some years ago I bought a tachi koshirae from the defunct Tokyo Sword Fittings Museum described in the catalogue as a 19th C. copy of a Momoyama koshirae (I personally think it is much older but that is another matter). That too has the menuki completely concealed by the same style of binding. Judging by the photo of the whole hilt, it looks as if it may have been mounted in a handachi style with lacquered braid ito.

Ian Bottomley

A different handle pic.

[Stephen]

TJ

 

dont think anyone thinks something wrong with the tsuka ito, maybe a shot of the fuchi, most likely a add on but hard to tell from pix and not in hand.

[reinhard]

Don't get me wrong on this one. There might be some nice parts here nobody can tell by now. All I'm saying is: With the Mekugi plugged in (as shown in Thomas' pic) the Fuchi was definitely added later for it takes more than one Seppa to fill the gap. The same goes for the space between Habaki and Tsuba. The Habaki seems to fit the blade quite well though, but Tsuka and Tsuba are wrong in proportion to the blade. I've come across an awful number of loosely fitting Koshirae pretending to be what they are not. The practice of changing parts or even entire fittings for commercial reasons started 150 years ago and as long as taste and craftsmanship are involved there's nothing to say against it. Things got worse however when Westerners started to change Koshirae according to their "refined" taste or what they held for it. The worst examples are still to be sold as "Satsuma rebellion swords". This seems to be (in Western terms) the equivalent of "anything goes".

 

reinhard

[outlier48]

I am a newbie also and was wondering why my wakizashi did not quite seem to fit the koshirae - somewhat loose fitting, missing one seppa, tsuka seemed modified to fit, etc. While the various pieces in and of themselves are interesting to me (pics already posted elsewhere on this board), I suspect that they were "assembled". In my case, and I suspect this is the norm, the whole is clearly less than the sum of the parts when the parts were not made for each other. Nonetheless, we (newbies) can enjoy those component pieces and learn from them.

 

Charlie