What's the most desirable armour ?

[Alex A]

Knowing the most desirable is the most expensive,  also what choices out there for folks on a more humble budget ?

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

It depends what you mean by ‘desirable’.

That your guests will desire? Are you looking for armour to protect yourself, or armour as decoration on a stand? Muromachi or Edo? Battered or pristine? Do you like colorful bits, or an understated look, lacquered iron or nerigawa leather, or plain russet iron, or what?

 

Do you want one set, or do you wish to collect examples of one thing, like  kabuto. What kind of kabuto appeal to you? I guess you need to see plenty of armour and see what attracts you! 

[Alex A]

Hi Piers,

 

I'm thinking makers, schools 

 

Just trying to get my head around what folks go for and why.

 

See many different types of Kabuto. Read of Saotome, where they considered the best ?

 

Guess its a vast question as you point out and down to personal taste and budget but be interesting to see what folks like.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

All good questions, and I too will be interested to hear opinions here. The subtle shape of a helmet bowl can send some people crazy! 

[Shogun8]

Normally, I wouldn't even attempt to answer a question like this because so much depends on all the considerations that Piers mentioned and many more. However, if I had to stick my neck out in terms of what would appeal to seasoned collectors and newbies alike, I would have to say that a proper akoda nari kabuto from the Muromachi period with it's unique-to-Japan, so-called "pumpkin" shape would have to be up there (even more so if complete with a haramaki or domaru, but that's probably more for connoisseurs as they are so rare and require some knowledge and scholarship to ensure a proper period piece and not an Edo revival). Also, a kawari kabuto from the Momoyama period, with their flamboyant, sculptural shapes. As mentioned, the Saotome are amongst the best kabuto makers of the Edo period. These are items that even the layman would appreciate. For connoisseurs, we get into some of the more esoteric items and schools: the Yashu; Joshu; Sansaku; Bamen; Saika; Nagasone; Unkai; etc.. And then you can drill down within categories. Even the common zunari offers a range of possibilities: ko-zunari; ballistic zunari; hineno zunari; etchu zunari; etc.. Very, very loaded question, with infinite answers really.

[Brian]

I've just always dreamed of a semi decent 62 plate Suji Kabuto or a koboshi kabuto.
More just to study the construction and appreciate it than actually to start collecting. But I'm going to have to accept that as just a dream.

[Luc T]

Well Brian,

maybe you will never own one, but heer 3 Saotome koboshi for you to enjoy

[FrenchBreadPrime]

I am in no way an expert and my opinion tends to differ from the general consensus. Objectively, the most desirable would be something like an O-Yoroi, something that's artistically and historically significant. Now I don't think you'd be able to get your hands on a genuine one without giving away your firstborn. Something more realistic to get your hands on would be a Saotome 62 plate koboshi kabuto. There's also a lot of incredibly beautiful sets from Mid to Late Edo jidai, but a lot of armors from that time sacrifice utility for looks. Kabuto by themselves are usually very sought after, and Saotome is an incredible school when it comes to Kabuto, they're well known and for good reason.

Koboshi Kabuto require an incredible amount of precise work to be made (as is the case for all Kabuto, but a 62 plate koboshi Kabuto would take a tremendous amount of time to make due to the amount of rivets needed), they're beautifful and subtle pieces.

 

Personally, I really, really love utility, I don't expect having to fight a burglar while wearing Samurai Armor in a home defense scenario (though one can dream), and it would be overkill anyways but there's some historical weight to the fact that something was absolutely unpenetrable. I also enjoy looks, so my "dream armor" would be something like a Tameshi Go-Mai Do(or yukinoshita do) Gusoku, ideally red lacquered and with an Akoda nari or Momo nari Kabuto with wakidate or animalistic features. With all the possible adds like wakibiki, etc

Now I know I'm more likely to get hit by lightning thrice and win the lottery twice all in the same week than I am to ever stumble upon that kind of armor, but to me, that'd be the holy grail.

[uwe]

What a question Alex….😯

In my opinion, it’s a matter of taste and, BTW, the most expensive is not necessarily the most desirable 😉

I personally like “utility armor” (matching sets mainly from the Momoyama or early Edo period). At best, traceable to a certain clan/family! 
Regarding a humble budget, okashi- or tatami-gusoku are a possibility. Furthermore, a complete ashigaru armor in good condition is not that expensive, but hard to find, I admit.

Tidiane, if you ever get offered such a combination (akoda or momonari together with an yukinoshita-dō), run away…

 

[Shogun8]

14 minutes ago, uwe said:

Tidiane, if you ever get offered such a combination (akoda or momonari together with an yukinoshita-dō), run away…

 

You beat me to the punch here, Uwe!

[FrenchBreadPrime]

3 hours ago, uwe said:

Tidiane, if you ever get offered such a combination (akoda or momonari together with an yukinoshita-dō), run away…

 

You're right haha! I shouldn't have mentioned Yukinoshita Do for that reason, but I really love those Do, though I have seen combinations with these Kabuto and Gomai do, some of which looked impressive, but most of which were uchidashi, hindering the utility of the armor.

Akoda nari and Momonari are some of my favorite Kabuto for their utility and look, and I reaaaally like Yukinoshita do (for the same reason, they look great and are incredibly good at what they do)! I also really appreciate a lot of Kawari kabuto, but that would be more of a case-by-case scenario.

 

Now I wouldn't spit on a set exactly like the one I mentioned but with the usual Yukinoshita Do and Suji bachi kabuto combo either, I'm just more of a sucker for other kinds of Kabuto. If we're talking Suji Bachi, I tend to prefer those with less plates (8 or so), as to me they look a little "rougher" than those with more plates. I think I saw one like that as a Gusoku with a Yukinoshita Do a few months ago.

[Miura]

On 6/6/2023 at 6:54 AM, Shogun8 said:

You beat me to the punch here, Uwe!

This is not the best Advice to give to the young man. What you should say is:  "Learn your stuff so that when a GOOD yukinoshita dou and a GOOD akoda comes your way as a mismatched set, you will hand over your money and know you got a good deal." this of course would be the opposite if they were bad.

[uwe]

That’s true Andy, if you looking at the respective individual pieces!

I was rather referring to Tidiane’s “dream”…..

 

“…I also enjoy looks, so my "dream armor" would be something like a Tameshi Go-Mai Do(or yukinoshita do) Gusoku, ideally red lacquered and with anAkoda nari or Momo nari Kabuto with wakidate or animalistic features. With all the possible adds like wakibiki, etc

Now I know I'm more likely to get hit by lightning thrice and win the lottery twice all in the same week than I am to ever stumble upon that kind of armor, but to me, that'd be the holy grail.”