Ume flower inlay worn by a samurai?

[Blueduck600]

 I've been reading some of the threads here and one lead me to this question: Would this would have worn by a samurai or someone else?

Can someone point me to a good thread that would show examples of where this line is?

 

Aside from that, I'm looking at this one for $200.

I'm interested to hear peoples opinion of it. No info from the seller other than Edo.

The moon seems strangely dark even though it seems to be an inlay. Does this look like something that could be cleaned?

[ROKUJURO]

4 minutes ago, Blueduck600 said:

 ......Would this have been worn by a samurai or someone else?....

.......The moon seems strangely dark even though it seems to be an inlay. Does this look like something that could be cleaned?....

 

Adam,

this is a fine TSUBA for any SAMURAI. If you have someone (like Ford Hallam, a member here on the board) who could traditionally clean and perhaps repatinate the TSUBA, the moon may get his silvery shine back. Don't try it yourself as you may damage the TSUBA and its value.

[Brian]

There is no way to know what was worn by a samurai and what was worn by some merchant selling vegetables. Just accept it as a tsuba. The times these were made, it's unlikely to have been used in some romantic battle anyways.
It's a fair example. Nothing too special. Average I would say. Not expensive at $200....but not cheap. You can get a lot of tsuba for that price if you look around. If you like it, go for it.
Maybe....not sure, the moon is in silver that has tarnished. As mentioned, I wouldn't clean it.

[vajo]

Leave it as it is. The tsuba isn't dirt or rusty.

[rematron]

Are we sure the moon is inlay?  To my (novice) eyes it looks to be part of the carved iron. Same color as the iron and I can see a defined ridge.  Also, there are soft metal inlays on the tsuba that are not tarnished so why would just the moon be tarnished?  I agree with Chris that it looks to be in fine condition from the pictures here.

[Blueduck600]

1 hour ago, rematron said:

Are we sure the moon is inlay?  To my (novice) eyes it looks to be part of the carved iron. Same color as the iron and I can see a defined ridge.  Also, there are soft metal inlays on the tsuba that are not tarnished so why would just the moon be tarnished?  I agree with Chris that it looks to be in fine condition from the pictures here.

It does have a slight warmer/brownish color to it but I'm not 100% on that. Also I think iron would be odd considering the inlay of the flowers.

[Blueduck600]

2 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Adam,

this is a fine TSUBA for any SAMURAI. If you have someone (like Ford Hallam, a member here on the board) who could traditionally clean and perhaps repatinate the TSUBA, the moon may get his silvery shine back. Don't try it yourself as you may damage the TSUBA and its value.

I would think that would be prohibitively expensive. How much do you think that would cost?

[Blueduck600]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

There is no way to know what was worn by a samurai and what was worn by some merchant selling vegetables. Just accept it as a tsuba. The times these were made, it's unlikely to have been used in some romantic battle anyways.
It's a fair example. Nothing too special. Average I would say. Not expensive at $200....but not cheap. You can get a lot of tsuba for that price if you look around. If you like it, go for it.
Maybe....not sure, the moon is in silver that has tarnished. As mentioned, I wouldn't clean it.

Thanks for the input. Any recommendations on where to shop? I've just been browsing ebay.

[rematron]

24 minutes ago, Blueduck600 said:

It does have a slight warmer/brownish color to it but I'm not 100% on that. Also I think iron would be odd considering the inlay of the flowers.

To me, the slight difference in color is because of the smoother surface of the iron of the moon (nothing to catch shadow) with comparison to the textured iron around it (catches shadow).  That's what I see, anyways...

 

In my experience (short but intense) it is very common for some elements to be subdued while others are highlighted.  There are a few possible reasons for this.  One would be that the artist didn't want to distract from the flowers in the composition.  Another is price.  The more inlays, the more expensive it would be to purchase.  Just like a base model car.  The price goes up with the power windows. (Although, I think all cars probably come with power windows these days. Showing my age...)

[rematron]

Here are a couple examples where the tsuba has inlay but the moon remains the same material as the base plate.  

 

[ROKUJURO]

1 hour ago, Blueduck600 said:

..... Any recommendations on where to shop? I've just been browsing ebay.

Don't go E-Bay, it is a minefield for newbies!

On top of this page you see the blue banner. Hit NIHONTO INFO, then 'links'. You can choose among many dealers under COMMERCIAL They are members here and trustworthy and reliable.

[Stephen]

Of course it was carried by a Samurai and it endured ferocious battles, its has great history enjoy your imagination enjoy your adventure

[Blueduck600]

2 hours ago, rematron said:

Here are a couple examples where the tsuba has inlay but the moon remains the same material as the base plate.  

 

Thank you for the pictures, I see what you mean.

[Blueduck600]

2 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Don't go E-Bay, it is a minefield for newbies!

On top of this page you see the blue banner. Hit NIHONTO INFO, then 'links'. You can choose among many dealers under COMMERCIAL They are members here and trustworthy and reliable.

I realize it's a minefield but I have been asking for advise before I buy anything.

Thank you for pointing out the links, I will look through it. The problem with most sites is there is no way to search by price and I spend a ton of time scrolling through listings one at a time only to see the price at the end is far outside my budget. It quickly gets discouraging. The way ebay shows a price with a thumbnail is a huge advantage.

[Larason2]

I agree the moon is probably part of the iron, but with a different finish. My first thought was shakudō, but it has some corrosion on it that looks the same as the corrosion on the nearby iron, whereas you wouldn't see this with shakudō. It's quite a nice piece. I agree it doesn't really need restoration.

[roger dundas]

Am I right?  A katana sized tsuba would be used by a Samurai whereas a smaller, wakizashi sized tsuba would or could be used by a merchant on his smaller wakizashi as he wasn't permitted to wield a katana? So Adam's tsuba above is for a Samurai rather than a merchant.

Roger 2

[Bugyotsuji]

There is a curious hollow leading into the hole through the tsuba at the foot of the Japanese apricot. Nice touch. I like the tsuba.

 

We don't have the sizes to judge by, but besides the merchant or elevated artisan possibility, etc., it could also have been part of a Daisho set, both swords being worn by a samurai. 

[Spartancrest]

1 hour ago, Blueduck600 said:

The way ebay shows a price with a thumbnail is a huge advantage.

Advantage yes, but not the best prices - you can often buy the exact item direct from Japanese sites for sometimes half the price compared to ebay - also be aware there are many 'proxy sellers' on ebay so you need to track down the original listing - it can save you hundreds of dollars, another catch is always ALWAYS check the shipping cost that is how the dealers often make their money!

Good luck Adam! 

[Blueduck600]

14 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Advantage yes, but not the best prices - you can often buy the exact item direct from Japanese sites for sometimes half the price compared to ebay - also be aware there are many 'proxy sellers' on ebay so you need to track down the original listing - it can save you hundreds of dollars, another catch is always ALWAYS check the shipping cost that is how the dealers often make their money!

Good luck Adam! 

Yes, I have run into the proxy seller issue before with this and with hard to find books. So far I haven't had any success tracking down the original sellers.

I always check shipping, the $200 price on this one includes that.

[Blueduck600]

On 5/18/2023 at 5:41 PM, Stephen said:

Of course it was carried by a Samurai and it endured ferocious battles, its has great history enjoy your imagination enjoy your adventure

It's not quite about romantic battle. It's about gaining a clearer view of a culture that valued both violence and artistic beauty.
It is a combination that is extremely rare today but I think it's important for an individual to have an understanding of these two worlds.

[rematron]

It should be mentioned here that the Japanese plum/apricot is one of the first trees to bloom after winter and is therefor a widely used theme symbolizing perseverance. Yes, the flower is beautiful but there is always a deeper meaning in imagery used in tosogu.  Flowers in general are to remind samurai of living in the moment and that all things die though they are beautiful and alive now.  A main mental goal of the samurai was to be constantly ready for death and at to at peace with the prospect.