fan-knife, bokuto/chashitsu-to, tekkan/kabutowari, uchine

[Wari-kogai]

Hello members of Nihonto Message Board,

 

I don`t know if this is to far away from this forum`s purpose,

therefore I will put 4 things together into one single thread.

The pictures are all together in one zip-file (ca. 3,4 MB):

http://www.kubushi-tengu.de/zeitordner/four%20items.zip

 

I would like to know, what you think of following items

and what you know in genreall concerning such items.

Thanks in advance for the effort you`re undertaking.

 

As a newbie real or not real doesn`t matter that much as I always make my decision

based on the question what would it cost do get such an item elsewhere , assuming I`m

buying a newly made one in a shop & furthermore how interesting is it to me as martial artist.

 

 

 

1. I once bought a fan-knife via ebay (just sold as fan-knife from a person

who didn`t claim to know anything about swords and who as far as I`ve

noticed really didn`t sell swords, knifes or Japanese goods regularly.

A sword polisher thinks (unfortunately only by photos)

it`s probably around 70-80 years old, tourist-thing.

The blade is kind of "naginata-style", becomes

thinner towards kissaki on both sides.

sample picture (more in zip-file):

 

 

 

2. I once purchased a kabutowari (probably bronze) on ebay

which was sold as old but which I found all in all 4 times

with slightly different outlook - the most expensive

was the one wrapped with old-looking same.

it`s the same as this one (look for the TEKKAN):

http://www.e-budokai.com/weapons/hachiwari.htm

The v-shaped scratches on both sides of grip are normal.

 

 

 

3. I purchased a bokuto or chashitsu-to and was told it would be from edo-period.

As the seller sells similar "old" items regularly (e.g. tanto, yari or certain swords),

I`m not sure if it`s really from the (latter) edo-period, early meiji or later.

Furthermore the Kanji seem to be a little to "modern" in my eyes

but finally, I do know next to nothing about it except that

in edo-period it became a fashion to wear such bokuto

which at the end were more like knifes than short swords.

I liked that even a faked opening for kozuka had been added.

 

 

 

4. I purchased an Uchine which is surely a fake one but liked the yari-tip.

Actually you can find this item again and again on ebay (jap. sellers).

I see this as a modern reproduction which didn`t cost that much

and therefore I won`t cry as I knew it would not be real.

Nevertheless I`m not sure if it is a little to short for

such an arrow. Whole length is 47,8cm,

spearhead (all shiny part) is 9cm..

A very similar item is here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SAMURAI-Neya-Uchine-Japanese_W0QQitemZ350237140597QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAsian_Antiques?hash=item518bc2a675&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[IanB]

Dear Mr. Muecke, As you suspected, your items are a mixture of new and old. The fan dagger is of a common type that dates to the Meiji period and was made in the thousands, if not tens of thousands. I have never seen one of this type with a real blade in it, but they certainly took some trouble to lacquer the koshirae reasonably well. Your uchine is as you supposed a modern copy. The chashitsu to is very fine and I am sure is perfectly genuine. This kind of thing were also worn by doctors and similar people who were not allowed to wear a real sword. Finally the hachiwari (or kabutowari) is again old but not a real one. Being made of bronze it would not have been a great deal of use. Although they are called 'helmet breakers' they were probably used in the left had to parry a sword cut. There has been a thread on this board about them. Just how old your example is, I am not sure. I have seen others like yours before and I suspect they are Meiji period.

Ian Bottomley

[Wari-kogai]

Dear Mr. Bottomley, thanks for the first answer in this topic.

 

The fan dagger is of a common type that dates to the Meiji period

Well, that`s fine so far. It was indeed the koshirae which attracted me.

 

The chashitsu to is very fine and I am sure is perfectly genuine. This kind of thing were

also worn by doctors and similar people who were not allowed to wear a real sword.

I don`t have much information about such things but they are mentioned in Serge Mol`s

"Classical Weaponry Of Japan". The most "extensive" text I know of is in the magazine

"Daruma - Japanese Art & Antiques Magazine". I do think (no kanji are given there),

that the translation of bokuto (B/Moku-to = wooden-sword) as doctor`s sword

was from thinking that 1. these people did wear these swords or 2. that the

headline "Bokuto (´Doctor`s Swords`)" should only kind of emphasize that

primarily these people did often wear such swords which wasn`t obvious.

At least I personally couldn`t find any "boku = doctor" in dictionairies.

 

Added to the article is a notice, that meanwhile the authors got to

get to know, that doctors were alloowed to use [real] swords.

 

 

Being made of bronze it would not have been a great deal of use.

I could imagine, that this kind of (really thin) Tekken (Tetsu-ken / metal-sword)

falls into the same category as the Bokuto (but I absolutely don`t know much about it).

Meiji-period would suit very well to the age I had in mind (e.g. because of the numerous items).

[Brian]

Just wondering..do you purposefully plan your text so that it contracts in length and then increases again?

Very odd I might add... :? At least I can read it now that the color is back to normal

 

Brian

[Wari-kogai]

Contracting & increasing of text happens often (i`m always happy when each line has same length)

but line breaks are used by me primarily to avoid unsuspected wordwraps or unreadable texts etc..

The color has been changed back for that members using different forum-apperances are happy.