An Island sword

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I was shown this sword during the week . The father of the man who owns it was the Clerk of Courts in rural Victoria in the 60's . The sword was an exhibit in a court case and at the conclusion of the case no one claimed it so the Clerk wound up with it .Another son had buffed the blade and tsuba and had glued the handle on 

The kabuto gane is interesting as it is a crude copy of a shin gunto one . The cherry blossoms have been cast separately from the main body . The fuchi is plain iron without a base plate . The menuki appear to be a cherry blossom flanked by two smaller ones . There are no marks on anything other than some hard to read red writing on the saya cover, one of which appears to be Gun

It seems to me that this has been made during the war in the south west Pacific area . The finer details make me think that it is a bit too good to have been knocked out in an Australian workshop . I concluded that it was Japanese made in the Islands . I have attached photos for posterity and in case anyone turns up a similar one.

Ian Brooks

[Ian B3HR2UH]

And a couple more shots

[Ian B3HR2UH]

And a clearer shot of the kabuto gane

[Shamsy]

Hard to know. I mean, is there any indication it came from a soldier originally? Forgive me if I am not understanding, but it sounds as if it just came to the Clerk of Courts without any history, other than being part of an exhibit?

 

As to quality, I've seen far better. Neil had one that was far nicer from memory. I've also seen much worse (Java swords, the single Island Sword I can verify).

 

Just such a difficult area. We know genuine examples exist but since they are all basically unique, how can you ever know trash from treasure? There is the PoW that made swords, accounts of collaboration forces making them, the Java Sword Works, the sword smithing team that made them in the field... but then the Aussies made a bunch and of course lots of fakes and weird stuff.

[John C]

For me, the dichotomy is between the crudeness of these types of swords versus the number of hours it must have taken to produce them. Somebody had a lot of time on his/her hands to hand stamp all of the details. 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks for posting, Ian!  

 

It fits what we know of the island swords.  The thing that often tips the scales for me is legitimate aging and use.  Real wear and tear, that is old.  We've seen attempts to fake that, but this one looks real.

[lonely panet]

IMHO is want made in Japan or by a Japanese person,  so there for dosnt deserve the title.

 

its a sword,  no more Japanese then my left testicle. "speculation?" well we are allowed that but is it healthy ????

 

if you label this as island made,  which island?? as thats its national dentity. 

but i wouldnt give much time

 

[DTM72]

I may have another one that is a possible island sword. I got this as part of a group of 5 swords. All are authentic WWII vintage and have been in the same family for 50 years. The leather on the tsuka has imprinted itself to the underlying ito and appears to have some age to it. The ito alternates as it should and it appears well done. The Ray skin is authentic and has an older grayish appearance. Bamboo leaf menuki reminds me of the civilian versions available in the WWII timeframe.

The blade itself is shaped well with no waves in the shinogi line or in the thickness of the shinogi itself. I cannot see a temper line or yakote line.

Open to opinions on this one.

[John C]

28 minutes ago, DTM72 said:

The leather on the tsuka has imprinted itself t

As a leather worker, I think it was probably formed at that time. But maybe a repaired gunzoku sword? The leaf design reminds me of the leaf gunzoku tsuba.

 

John C.

[vajo]

The blade nakago shows a non Japanese swordsmith. 

[Michaelr]

Don’t know what it is but I love the leather work. Good luck and thank you for sharing   

  MikeR

[DTM72]

3 hours ago, vajo said:

The blade nakago shows a non Japanese swordsmith. 

The blade itself looked good to me, but when I pulled off the tsuka my face was like...

[Bruce Pennington]

It is so well made, I can see why it was a surprise, Dan!  

 

All the metal fittings, except the menugi, plus the nakago, look like something made in occupied territories.  I'm just puzzled by the higher quality work, the alternating ito.  I remember Nick Komiya's discussion of Japan's effort to transfer sword production out of Japan when Allied bombing started to wreak havoc on mainland production.  If memory serves me, he said it was never fully completed, but that implies that it was being set up to some degree.  Maybe this sword was made "over there" and finished out by Japanese fittings workers who had transferred over.  Just speculating.

[DTM72]

Besides the leather saya cover, and the leather tsuka cover, I didn't snap a picture of the leather cover that goes over the entire tsuka and tsuba. I have a picture of one like it that is currently for sale in Japan. With all the leather covers, this leads me to believe this sword was somewhere very humid and or rainy.

[Brian]

Looks to me like a genuine sword that lost its tsuka. So someone found one somewhere that was useable, and filed/ground the tang until it fit in the tsuka, and drilled a new hole.

[Kiipu]

DTM, I think it is a sword made in China during the war.  The lower ranks were fond of the traditional style and would purchase them locally.  There are plenty of pictures of them carrying such swords.  See the second picture down from the top.  That's my story and I am sticking to it!

白兵

 

Picture translation via Google Translate.

昭和十四年に支那大陸で写されたプライベートアルバムに写る二人の上等兵で、各々が「脇差」をベースとした「私物軍刀」を所持している。両者ともに「脇差」の「鞘」を革で包むとともに「革帯」に佩用にするための金属製の「佩環」が「鞘」に付けられている。また右の上等兵は柄部分の「柄巻」を護るために布を巻きつけている。両者とも昭和五年制定の「防暑衣」を着用している。These are two privates pictured in a private album taken in China in 1939, each carrying a "private gunto" based on the "Wakizashi."'  In both cases, the "sheath" of the "Wakizashi" is wrapped in leather, and a metal "car ring" is attached to the "scabbard" to be worn on the "leather obi."  Additionally, the private on the right has cloth wrapped around the handle to protect it. Both men are wearing "heat protection clothing" that was established in 1930.

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:58 PM, Ian B3HR2UH said:

 

There are 4 kanji on it. Can't tell the first 2, but the 3rd one is 軍（army), not sure about the 4th one either. @Kiipu

[Bryce]

G'day Dan,

The blade itself looks to be much better quality than the nakago suggests. Is it possible that the very crappy nakago has been welded on at a latter date? From the photos I can almost convince myself that this is the case.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[DTM72]

@Bryce I could see how that is an option, but the entire nakago has bad grinding marks on it. Maybe due to poor machinery being available in a remote area? This one is still a mystery to me. I'll send it through the Orlando shinsa in June and they will tell me who made it.  Seriously, I will have it on my sales table at the Orlando show. 

[dwmc]

It is extremely difficult for me to believe, even an off-mainland Japanese swordsmith would leave a nakago looking like this one does. Most if not all of these mystery swords appear to be forged with a very different mindset than a traditional Japanese smith. For instance, non-Japanese smiths appear to have a decent amount of forging skill but seem to feel there is no reason to put real effort into a nakago which won't be seen. Although, many of these swords show a fair amount of skill level but are invariably much, much lower than traditional Japanese.

 

 

Dave