Bruce Pennington Posted April 28, 2023 Report Posted April 28, 2023 At @Bruno's suggestion, let's start tracking, for reference, showato that have received shinsa papers. Please correct me if I have this wrong, but there are showato that come with registration papers, but they are not what we are tracking. We are tracking NTHK and NBTHK papers. To complicate matters, I've just learned that there is an NTHK and an NTHK-NPO: From Bruno: "I have been told a bit more informations recently by Chris B. "The NTHK split into 2 groups after the death of the head of the group. One faction continued under the family and adopted son of the former head, the other faction incorporated as a non-profit group recognized by the Japanese government and continues as the NTHK-NPO. This split occurred more than 20 years ago. The papers being discussed are by the Yoshikawa NTHK group, not the NPO. The NPO publishes a statement in every issue of their journal that states clearly that they will not paper mass produced, arsenal made, showa-to." I'm posting the 2 I can find. If anyone knows of more, please add. 2 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted April 28, 2023 Author Report Posted April 28, 2023 First enry from @SRDRowson found HERE. A Seki-stamped Kanetsugu, January 1942. Kanteisho rating, by NTHK-NPO before they instituted their "no showato" policy: 1 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted April 28, 2023 Author Report Posted April 28, 2023 Thanks Thomas. Didn't expect to get it right the first time! Corrections made, but you'll have to delete your own post, if you wish, I cannot. Quote
Bruno Posted April 28, 2023 Report Posted April 28, 2023 Thanks Bruce! NTHK NPO did papered showato for a short time but not anymore. Anyway, it would be interesting to reference all the showa-to we come across who get papered, not matter the shinsa and when they did it. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted April 28, 2023 Author Report Posted April 28, 2023 The second entry: A 1942 Koa Isshin Mantetsu Kanteisho rating from NTHK-NPO 3 Quote
Bruno Posted April 28, 2023 Report Posted April 28, 2023 SEKI Kanemichi with NBTHK Hozon paper dated 06/01/2016 (already posted on another thread before) https://www.Japanese-sword-katana.jp/未分類/1610-1123.htm 2 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted April 28, 2023 Report Posted April 28, 2023 Question: if a sword was proven to be made after the war would it still be shunned irregardless of quality? Quote
Toryu2020 Posted April 28, 2023 Report Posted April 28, 2023 John Is the artist alive or dead? Is he recognized? Mukansa or other designation? A traditionally made sword could most likely get a paper. When we say Showato, we mean non-traditionally made most likely from the war years... -t Quote
Guest Simon R Posted April 29, 2023 Report Posted April 29, 2023 Not strictly papered as such but each sold by Aoi Arts and all, therefore, legally registered in Japan with a locally issued torokusho (licence). Despite this, they are all oil tempered with Seki stamps - with the exception of the Kanataka which has a barely erased Sho stamp. In most cases, Tsuruta san spins a heartwarming yarn about a "son's father packing him off to war with this sword to bring him luck". Strange how he doesn't bother with all that hogwash if the blade is gendaito 🤔. https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-no-syu-seki-jyu-23rd-fujiwara-kanefusa-saku-no/ http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2013/13155-2.jpg https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-seki-ju-ishihara-kanenao-saku/ http://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2015/15198-2.jpg https://www.aoijapan.net/katanagunto-noshu-seki-ju-kanetaka-kitae-kore/ Quote
DTM72 Posted May 1, 2023 Report Posted May 1, 2023 On 4/28/2023 at 1:48 PM, Bruce Pennington said: The second entry: A 1942 Koa Isshin Mantetsu I still giggle a bit that a sword made in China got papers. Reminds me, I still need a Mantetsu for my collection. 1 1 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted December 2, 2023 Report Posted December 2, 2023 Another by the NBTHK with a clear Seki stamp and clear signs of oil tempering in the Hamon. What is going on with the Gendai shinsa team? https://page.auction.../auction/q1115983567 2 Quote
John C Posted December 2, 2023 Report Posted December 2, 2023 It also has a torokusho, which I thought could only be issued to traditionally made blades? John C. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted December 2, 2023 Author Report Posted December 2, 2023 9 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said: Another by the NBTHK with a clear Seki stamp John, What is the rating? Is it the lowest, like they gave to that Mantetsu a while back, for historical importance? Quote
vajo Posted December 2, 2023 Report Posted December 2, 2023 Sad i can't follow the link. Yahoo! Japan’s services are no longer available to our users in the EEA (European Economic Area) and the United Kingdom, as it has been determined by Yahoo! Quote
vajo Posted December 2, 2023 Report Posted December 2, 2023 12 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said: John, What is the rating? Is it the lowest, like they gave to that Mantetsu a while back, for historical importance? The paper says hozon Bruce. "original Japanese blade worth for preservation" Btw: the polish looks fantastic. Sharp lines and not overpushed like the western style. 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted December 2, 2023 Author Report Posted December 2, 2023 12 minutes ago, vajo said: The paper says hozon Bruce. "original Japanese blade worth for preservation" That seems to be the trend. 1 Quote
SteveM Posted December 2, 2023 Report Posted December 2, 2023 This paper even makes note of the "Seki" stamp (the bit in parenthesis just before the signature). Previously, I think the NBTHK would have preferred this stamp to be obscured or removed so that they could at least make a plausible claim that the item wasn't presented as a wartime blade. Now it seems they are embracing Seki blades. This is speculation, but I do think there has been some discussion at NBTHK, and that they are now viewing these blades as having valid historical value, and are therefore issuing authentication papers for wartime blades that are properly registered and are in good condition. It would be helpful if the NBTHK would make some public statement about this This paper is from 2021. 3 1 Quote
Bruno Posted December 3, 2023 Report Posted December 3, 2023 20 hours ago, vajo said: Sad i can't follow the link. Yahoo! Japan’s services are no longer available to our users in the EEA (European Economic Area) and the United Kingdom, as it has been determined by Yahoo! Chris, Just copy and paste the number on the link on buyee ( cf my capshot). 1 Quote
Bruno Posted December 3, 2023 Report Posted December 3, 2023 20 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said: John, What is the rating? Is it the lowest, like they gave to that Mantetsu a while back, for historical importance? NBTHK does not have a work sheet with a score of points like NTHK NPO does. They give the same hozon paper to a showato and to a good gendaito, without making any difference. It demeans all papers by lowering the standard. 1 1 Quote
vajo Posted December 3, 2023 Report Posted December 3, 2023 Thanks Bruno - it works. Cool! Just for reference. 2 Quote
Bruno Posted December 3, 2023 Report Posted December 3, 2023 Still a nice sword that worths to be preserved with care. 2 Quote
Bruno Posted December 6, 2023 Report Posted December 6, 2023 On 4/28/2023 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Pennington said: The second entry: A 1942 Koa Isshin Mantetsu Kanteisho rating from NTHK-NPO I wonder how many points it got on the work sheet. On 4/28/2023 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Pennington said: Quote
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