Help to remove the blade from the koshirae

[Dave0258]

All,

I have the WW2 kyu-gunto back in my possession again from the owner and have removed the mekugi peg. I have attempted to use the proper technique as described in several books to jar the blade free so that I can examine the nagako. My wrist is getting numb from the action, but the blade is not unseating. Of course the blade is rusted as shown in previous photos, and has not been removed in at least 60+ years. Am I doing something wrong? Should I unscrew the sakura rosettes that hold on the backstrap? (Do they also secure the blade somehow?) I have checked the pommel and it does not unscrew (as mentioned in some later ersatz models of shin guntos). Suggestions?

[paulb]

Dave,

it is very difficult to recommend a course of action at distance in these situations as if you do it wrong based on suggestions you could damage the blade or worse still yourself. General things that may help but you must be extremely cautious and careful:

 

1. I have found that holding the tsuka near the end helps when using the traditional approach. It seems to improve the chances of loosening the blade.

 

2. If that doesn't work the Japanese use a small shaped piece of wood which is held against the tsuka surface near the habaki and gently tap it downwards with a wooden mallet. In the absence of the right tools for many years I used a small soft wood block to tap against the tsuka and that worked ok.

 

3. Normally I don't think the Sarute rivets go all the way through the nakago (except on machine made NCO blades). but if after gentle attempts to move the tsuka it is still jammed solid it might be worth seeing if they come free.

 

As in all things of this nature take care and patience I have known people spend hours gently loosening a tsuka. Better to take time at this stage than do irreparable damage to the sword, fittings or you.

not sure if this helps much but see how you go and others might have better suggestions

regards

Paul

[Grey Doffin]

Dave,

1st make sure that there isn't a 2nd mekugi further down the tsuka. If not, and if we're dealing with gunto koshirae with cast tsuba or koshirae with an iron tsuba without soft metal inlay, the following technique should work easy and should do no damage.

Fold a bath towel in thirds lengthwise and lay it on a counter with about 6' of the towel hanging over the edge. Lay the side of the blade on the towel with the tsuka hanging over the edge (if there is a spring clip through the tsuba use the other side of the blade on the towel). Now bring the tsuka forward so the tsuba bumps into the towel and counter edge. It might take a few bumps and you might have to gradually increase force, but very soon the blade will break lose from its accumulated rust and start to exit the tsuka. It is never necessary to remove the sarute.

Once again, don't use this technique with soft metal koshirae; it could suffer damage.

Hope this helps, Grey

[remzy]

Paul provided excellent advices, here is a link to the tool that were refered to.

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/tools.html

 

You could easily make your own based from the pictures, as mentioned by Paul, the goal is to protect yourself and the blade from damage and injuries.

[pcfarrar]

Should I unscrew the sakura rosettes that hold on the backstrap? (Do they also secure the blade somehow?)

 

Yes sometimes try removing them.The hand guard should unhook from the pommel and release the hilt.

[Hermes]

Make sure you take out both mekugi's and then take a towel and put it around the blade close to the Habaki, while holding the towel use a wood steak on the Tsuba close to the blade itself using a rubber/wood mallet, pound the wood steak and it will come apart. Be careful!!!

[loiner1965]

has he done it yet

[pcfarrar]

I don't think some people have realised he's referring to a kyu-gunto. It's not quite as easy to remove the tsuka as a regular shin-gunto. If its fitted to the pommel via a screw threaded nakago all the hitting in the world won't remove it.

[Dave0258]

All - sorry for the confusion.

First, I will try these techniques either late tonight or tomorrow, as I have a 3 hour phone conference tonight yet. I will keep you all apprised of the results.

Yes, it is a kyu-gunto, so there are no cast tsuba. (see the photos from the previous post asking about whether or not it was worth it to restore the blade).

No second mekugi peg.

I am pretty sure there is no threaded nakago. At least I hope not.

 

More later. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

Dave

[Dave0258]

Success. The rosette functioned as the second mekugi. Removing it and then using a combination of the makeshift wood block and the technique with the towel and end of the table worked. I still have ten fingers and all of the blood I started with. Perhaps as important is that the blade and koshirae did not suffer any damage either.

No visible mei or arsenal acceptance stamp. The nakago however appears to have been cut down, as it is square cut (kiri) and has a partial mekugi-ana at the end. The nakago is very dark and some rust.

As a follow-up to a previous question, the backstrap does not have any mon; only a sakura blossom at the top.

I will set up and take pictures tomorrow night and post them. My sincere thanks to all for your assistance.

Regards,

Dave

[pcfarrar]

The nakago however appears to have been cut down, as it is square cut (kiri) and has a partial mekugi-ana at the end. The nakago is very dark and some rust.

 

Thats good news that the nakago is fully intact. Sounds like you probably have an old blade as some of us suspected.

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

As Peter said, probably an old suriage blade.

May we have photos ? :D :D

 

Sebastien

[Dave0258]

Photos to come this evening after I get home from work and set up the equipment.

[Dave0258]

All,

as promised, here are the photos of the kyu-gunto blade, along with some of the koshirae. You should see both sides of the nagako, as well as the backstrap. I am also including the best photo I have which depicts the hamon. I apologize for the quality of the photos. I will get an eBay for Dummies book to get better at this.

 

Additional blade measurements:

67.5 cm in length

3 cm at machi, 2 cm at yokote

sori - 1.75 cm (my estimate)

14.5 cm nagako

2 and a half mekugi-ana

 

Your assessment?

 

Thanks,

Dave

[Stephen]

so with my best yiddish accent ....you havent oiled yet!

[Dave0258]

I'm busted, aren't I?

Tonight. (This silly day job keeps getting in the way...)

[paulb]

Dave,

thanks for your efforts and additional images. Having seen the nakago I agree with Peter that this would appear to be an older blade, (i.e not gendaito) based on pure statistics it is more likely to be shinto than shin-shinto because there are lot more of them in existence. I cant see anything in the images so far that would lead me to believe it is earlier than that, but there is not too much detail to see.

Finally I agree with Stephen "get it oiled!!"

good luck

Paul