Jcstroud Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Posted October 2, 2023 On 10/2/2023 at 12:29 PM, BANGBANGSAN said: John Do you have a photo that includes all the stamped numbers, painted numbers, and Roman numerals together? Expand We can do this..... Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Posted October 2, 2023 Here you go.... @BANGBANGSAN will send others pronto... 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Posted October 2, 2023 #45 tsuba very faint but there Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Posted October 2, 2023 Hope they are good enough if you wish more be glad to oblige. Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Posted October 2, 2023 Some of the differences I have noticed is #45 has cast heavier fuchi and koiguchi . #34 has embossed lighter weight Fuchi and koiguchi it is my belief that #45 was made before #34 because it is heavier overall.the stamped numbers on 34 are smaller as well..... Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Posted October 2, 2023 For those who have Inquiring minds... Saki kasane #34 =.232 inches #45 =.240 inches Saki haba #34 =.907 at yakote #45 =.874 " " Motokane #34 =.334 inches #45 =.322 inches Motohaba #34 =1.264 in. At habaki #45 =1.244 in. At habaki Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Posted October 2, 2023 So far we have found the following Toyosuke swords in the following countries: 33 us washington state 34 Virginia us 36 France 45 Puerto Rico 56 Australia 65 Poland 68 Poland 78 Poland ?? Japan ?? Russia ?? Austria ?? England ?? California Us 1 Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted October 3, 2023 Report Posted October 3, 2023 On 10/2/2023 at 1:13 PM, Jcstroud said: Here you go.... @BANGBANGSAN will send others pronto... Expand Thanks John! 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 3, 2023 Report Posted October 3, 2023 On 10/2/2023 at 4:29 PM, Jcstroud said: I have noticed is #45 has cast heavier fuchi and koiguch Expand That could mean the 45 was from one of the first production runs, and the 34 came later in one of the many repeat series. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 3, 2023 Author Report Posted October 3, 2023 On 10/3/2023 at 12:57 PM, Bruce Pennington said: On 10/2/2023 at 4:29 PM, Jcstroud said: and koiguch Expand That could mean the 45 was from one of the first production runs, and the 34 came later in one of the many repeat series. Expand Better photo to clarify differences 1 Quote
John C Posted October 3, 2023 Report Posted October 3, 2023 Which one is the #45? The bottom one? It looks to have higher quality fittings and a lacquered ito wrap. John C. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 3, 2023 Author Report Posted October 3, 2023 On 10/3/2023 at 8:45 PM, John C said: Which one is the #45? The bottom one? Expand Yes the bottom one dont know if it is lacquer or hand oils was lacquered ito the norm?😁 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 3, 2023 Report Posted October 3, 2023 Yes, could’ve been an actual war surplus. The lighter weight stuff was likely made after the war specifically for the souvenir. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 3, 2023 Author Report Posted October 3, 2023 On 10/3/2023 at 10:07 PM, Bruce Pennington said: Yes, could’ve been an actual war surplus Expand Another comparison #45 still has remnants of brown paint on the kabutogane #34 has no trace of pre-existing paint. 1 Quote
Shuko Posted October 4, 2023 Report Posted October 4, 2023 On 10/2/2023 at 8:04 PM, Jcstroud said: So far we have found the following Toyosuke swords in the following countries: 33 us washington state 34 Virginia us 36 France 45 Puerto Rico 56 Australia 65 Poland 68 Poland 78 Poland ?? Japan ?? Russia ?? Austria ?? England ?? California Us Expand We need a worldwide sword count Can't be many left in Japan 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 4, 2023 Author Report Posted October 4, 2023 Would like to take a moment to thank Matt of Sohei Swords for making this comparison possible...nice blade nice people aka @mdiddy 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Posted October 6, 2023 Thankyou @vajo for this picture of Toyosuke #68 care of @Bruce Penningtoncould you tell me where you found it that is what country? I would be very greatful . John S. Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Posted October 6, 2023 On 10/2/2023 at 8:04 PM, Jcstroud said: So far we have found the following Toyosuke swords in the following countries: #33 us washington state 34 Virginia us 36 France 45 Puerto Rico 56 Australia 65 Poland 67 Russia 68 ?? 78 Poland ?? Japan ?? Austria ?? England ?? California Us Expand List updated and corrected Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 9, 2023 Author Report Posted October 9, 2023 On 10/3/2023 at 12:57 PM, Bruce Pennington said: On 10/2/2023 at 4:29 PM, Jcstroud said: and koiguch Expand That could mean the 45 was from one of the first production runs, and the 34 came later in one of the many repeat series. Expand Finally with the help of you all have discovered the meaning of the tsuka symbols they are the 4th and 5th hiragana symbols in the iroha song order and on #34 the "he" symbol I believe is the 34th symbol in the same order does that mean it is sword #3434 more study is needed but certainly appears to be a breakthrough in deciphering the meanings of these tsuka symbols!!! Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 9, 2023 Report Posted October 9, 2023 I'm trying to catch up with this. The chart above is a HIRAGANA chart. They are a different way to write the same sounds of the KATAKANA chart. Based on the orientation to read the "34", the kana above them looks more like a katakana "FU" than a hiragna "HE" in my eyes. FU is vertical - フ - while "HE" is horizontal - へ . Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 10, 2023 Author Report Posted October 10, 2023 There is a likely possibility that some shops used one and others the other in the instance of #45 the 4th and fifth positions on the above chart are an exact match which is exactly what I was looking to find.now we are seeing the different possibilities.....cool!!! Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 10, 2023 Author Report Posted October 10, 2023 On 10/9/2023 at 3:41 PM, Jcstroud said: Finally with the help of you all have discovered the meaning of the tsuka symbols they are the 4th and 5th hiragana symbols in the iroha song order and on #34 the "he" symbol I believe is the 34th symbol in the same order does that mean it is sword #3434 Expand A correction to this assumption ...if the position on the hiragana chart were being used as series number prefix that would make Toyosuke #34 sword #2934 of 8747 keep in mind that this is at this time a theory needing to be proven. But indeed a possibility....and the search for who was Toyosuke continues......😁 Quote
John C Posted October 10, 2023 Report Posted October 10, 2023 On 10/10/2023 at 3:19 PM, Jcstroud said: keep in mind that this is at this time a theory needing to be proven. Expand Theories are proven OR disproven. Search for evidence and let that guide you. Just in general, many investigators run into trouble trying to "find" evidence that proves their theory. Remember too, that disproving and eliminating a theory is just as important, since you would no longer waste time researching it. IMHO, John C. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted October 10, 2023 Author Report Posted October 10, 2023 On 10/10/2023 at 9:39 PM, John C said: On 10/10/2023 at 3:19 PM, Jcstroud said: keep in mind that this is at this time a theory needing to be proven. Expand Theories are proven OR disproven. Search for evidence and let that guide you. Expand Agreed will require more examples of willing participants to acquire Proofs to this theory .in respect to #45 there is no doubt in my mind at all. But that does not negate the fact that multiple numbering systems were in use during and after the war.Very interesting in deed Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 25, 2023 Report Posted October 25, 2023 Here's a nice Toyosuke in kaigunto combat fittings on this ebay sale. Unfortunately, the seller cuts off the end where any painted numbers would be. But again, support for the fact he was an active smith during WWII, not a fictional name for souvenirs. Quote
SteveM Posted October 25, 2023 Report Posted October 25, 2023 This one is a Takeyasu 武泰, not Toyosuke. 2 1 Quote
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