Is this Echizen Kinai Tsuba?

[GoldenDrachen]

Hello gentlemen

 

I am looking at this tsuba.  I like this aoi leafs motif. Have seen already like 20 different tsuba with the same design, but they all looked very poorly executed. 

Also I can see hatching under brocken inlay.

Don't know about the signature. 

Is this an authentic piece?

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Hatching under the inlay indicates nunome (cloth-weave pattern) zogan, rather than hon (true)-zogan.

[GRC]

Vitaly, it's likely authentic in the sense that it was made during the Edo period by the Kinai school, but it probably wasn't intended for a "samurai". It doesn't look like it was ever mounted on a sword either.

 

At a certain point, this school cranked out lots of mass produced "shiiremono" (ready made) tsuba, often with some light hand finishing (like that gold nunome) to dress them up a little. They also did quality handmade commissioned pieces. I've got a good quote somewhere to back that up, based on Japanese research on the Echizen smiths that was translated to English... gotta dig that one up again and post it, but this is what I recall from memory.

So when it comes to this school, you need to take your time and learn to distinguish the high quality ones from the generic tsuba that were made for the masses, as souvenir items.    

 

These types of "ripples" in the seppa-dai are quite common in cast pieces.

There should also be "alarm bells" going off when you see weird gaps or missing areas in the relief pattern, like on the mimi (rim) of this tsuba... it doesn't look like a proper delamination of layered/folded steel, and looks more like a strange casting flaw.

Whether it was cast or not, it's not a high quality piece.

     

[Geraint]

Dear Vitaly.

 

Yes, this is signed Echizen Kinai saku and is one of their standard designs.  Given the size of the ryohitsu it seems to be rather small.

 

All the best.

 

(Beaten to the punch by Glen's much more detailed analysis.)

[GRC]

I found the quote 

...and it is not a direct translation, but a summary of a Japanese book.

 

 

SUMMARY OF ECHIZEN KINAI TSUBAKŌ

越前  記内

Malcolm and Sueko Cox

Nihonto-no-Bi website: 2006

 

Introductory Note

This summary is based on the book “Echizen Kinai Tsuba” 1998, by Nobuo and Nobuhide Tsuruwaka. Dr Nobuo Tsuruwaka has spent 50 years researching temple, local government and personal records to derive the findings in the book.  These notes are not a direct translation of the book, but a summary of the main features of this school.  

 

"Rokudai Takahashi

This generation introduced a dynamic and prosperous period, in which there was both rapid production of pre-made tsuba, as well as quality ordered work.  The rokudai was also a good business man and employed at least 6-7 deshi, who produced much routine work.  As production was high, it is difficult to know who produced what, although quality is a guide.  Some of this work was also produced to sell in Edo (Tokyo).  The mass produced deshi work is quite variable but often technically inferior, and is called “decchi-Kinai”.  These tsuba tend to be small with omote mei.  In this dai it is hard to know the tsubakō; there were several different mei styles, even on the same design.  This was especially so with the aoi, a very common design because it was that of the Fukui Han mon.  Many variations of the aoi design were made; in this dai even the poorer quality work is signed.  It is of note that several designs used by the Kinai group were also used by Shōami tsubakō.

 

These pre-made tsuba gave a poor name to this dai, especially the mass produced ones, however, good quality tsuba were also made.  Most tsuba are ji-sukashi, but there are also katachi nikubori, such as shells and shitake.  Most rokudai period tsuba have omote mei.  Rokudai Takahashi died in Bunsei 4 (1821, April 10).  [Tsuruwaka (1998) p.23 table, misprint with kanji as Bunka.]"

 

Also, the "Godai", 5th generation smith died in 1809, so these aoi themed tsuba made by the 6th gen Kinai were mostly made from 1809-1821.

[GoldenDrachen]

Thank you @GRC and @Geraint

Very helpful.

I do realize that this is not High class tsuba.

I believe proper ones if this design would cost more than 500€.

As long as it original I will be happy. As I mentioned I really like the motif.

In situations like this, it always comes to the price tag. I guess it worth 120€ seller wants.

 

Kind regards

vitaly 

 

[Brian]

I have an almost identical one I think. I see nothing wrong with it. Fairly standard and genuine Kinai tsuba. Not cast, just a decent example of a fairly typical example. Worth what he's asking easily.

[Dan tsuba]

Well, here we go again!

 

Cast or not cast?  Only 2 ways to tell.  The first is to take a hammer to it.  If it shatters, than it is cast (like the picture of the cast iron tsuba shown at the bottom of this post).

 

The other way is to have it metallurgically non-invasive tested.         

   

Otherwise, everything else is just an individual’s “best guess”!

 

Although, if I had to choose, I would agree with GRC’s analysis since it is based on close observation with pictures shown relating to his findings.  Also, some referenced research is stated and shown.

 

Just my 2 cents worth!

 

With respect,

Dan

 

 

 

[GRC]

 I'm not going to commit one way or the other on this one.

But personally, I would prefer to err on the side of caution.

I'm just advocating for people to be fully informed before spending their money.

 

These two have the same "verticalness" to the stem on the left, and the same lopsided seppa-dai and faux punch marks as tegane-ato... definitely cast

These three look more like the one Vitaly is looking at (I had to remove the background on the second one, so there's some chunks missing from the image, not the tsuba). The third one is obviously cast, while the second one has some interesting "remnants" and irregularities inside the sukashi in certain areas.

[Fuuten]

10 hours ago, GRC said:

These pre-made tsuba gave a poor name to this dai, especially the mass produced ones, however, good quality tsuba were also made.  Most tsuba are ji-sukashi, but there are also katachi nikubori, such as shells and shitake.  Most rokudai period tsuba have omote mei.  Rokudai Takahashi died in Bunsei 4 (1821, April 10).  [Tsuruwaka (1998) p.23 table, misprint with kanji as Bunka.]"

I was going to come to the defense of Kinai but happy to see this tidbit providing a little context. I have a set of shitake tsuba which are (to me), quite clever in the way they're designed.

 

The first time I went over them with a jewelers loop there were details I'd never noticed before (and could barely see with the naked eye)

[Spartancrest]

Glen is correct there are various 'grades' of these Aoi design guards. They are in fact still being made! Vitaly the one you are looking at is probably mid range? It does have the gold accents and it looks in good condition but I also agree with Brian that it has not been mounted, so that could well account for its good condition.

 

I am not totally convinced with this ebay example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144836055028 There is a lack of nunome on this one and the price is well above what you are being offered. 

You can get a brand new - made yesterday- one for the same sort of money you are paying for a genuine piece but why would anyone! 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/p1084261501

 

One of Glens cast examples with the cast in tagane-ato is found here: [though the owner seems unaware that it is a cast piece]

https://www.sakuramatsuriantiquariato.com/en/tsuba-and-kodogu-for-sale/tsuba-Japanese-for-sale/tsuba-aoi-echizen-kinai/

 

A selection of Kinai tsuba are found here from the A.H.Church collection:

http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10354 

Specifically the Aoi designs here: 

http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10354/19950

http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10354/19951

 

So you can see it is not all that easy to tell a good one from a great one - little easier to spot the 'new' fakes but it is sure easier with experience!

[mecox]

Here is a summary of Echizen Kinai tsuba and tsubako.

Japanese Sword (cox website) » Tsuba: Echizen Kinai (on.net)

[GoldenDrachen]

Wow! Gentlemen, I am overwhelmed with quality information! 

To summarize ( I will use new words I have learned )

This tsuba is mid range pre-made. Decoration made in nunome zogan technique, which is adequate to the overall craftsmanship of this piece.  Popular design ( still very attractive)

Deshi (apprentice) Kinai tsuba of the rokudai ( sixth generation)  period. 

All above convinced me to purchase it, so I did.

 

Last request. Could someone give me exact translation of the mei.

 

With respect

Vitaly 

 

 

 

 

 

[GoldenDrachen]

Holy moly, I have managed to recognize this mei in the book!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Xander Chia]

If they are cast I wonder if there are more with the same crooked “記” kanji as mine. I have a couple of them but only one has a “ribbed” pattern on the edges of the leaves. An example of the different “grades”?

[GRC]

Um, Mal (Mecox), I'm guessing you're Malcolm?

I should have posted the link to your site directly along with the quoted text 

Kudos to you for doing the research and providing the summary 

[Spartancrest]

19 hours ago, mecox said:

Here is a summary of Echizen Kinai tsuba and tsubako.

Japanese Sword (cox website) » Tsuba: Echizen Kinai (on.net)

 

Maru gata, kozuka ana and kogai ana, kaku mimi, 7.95 x 7.95 x 0.45 cm, nikubori sukashi design of Gods of Thunder (drums, clouds, lightning), mumei. Kin zogan detail and brass pins on drums. Attributed to 4th generation (yondai Ishikawa), example in Tsuruoka (1998, p.114).

 

 

For those interested there is an unsigned guard very much the same as the twelfth image in the link above, that is going for auction. 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/1087119122  The seppa-dai on the auction piece looks narrower and 'older'?

Way off topic but the design is seldom seen.

 

[Fuuten]

Took a little digging but dug up this shot, with the loop.