Several tsuba. Technical questions.

[GoldenDrachen]

Hello gentlemen.

 

As I go deeper into the subject, I face more difficulties with terminology, dating etc 

I have picked few tsuba for potential purchase, and this time  I need  more extensive understanding of the following items: (I will try to use some terms. Please correct me if I am wrong, and add if I am missing something.)

 

1. These two. I really like the texture. Very raw, but elegant at the same time.

So, shape is maru-gata. Fat edge - hira dotemimi, other one is uchigaeshi mimi.

 

 

What technique is called? Period ?

 

2. This one features inlay (how this technique called, nunome zogan?) and cutouts here are "ko-sukashi"

Plus I guess triangle is a Mon.

 

 

Edge is "maru Mimi"? Is this Shoami piece?

 

3.  The last one

Can't say anything yet about it. Will be delighted to learn about shape, techniques etc

 

Oh! Rays are "amida yasuri"

 

 

Looking forward for your comments!

Regards

Vitaly 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello again Vitaly,

 

Wow!  Some more nice tsuba there!  I don’t know much.  But the first tsuba looks like it may be layered?  If you look close at your picture of the nakago ana, it appears like two layers?

 

The third tsuba you showed is really nice.  And yes, those designs are kamon (family crests).

 

Now the forth tsuba you showed has a design of “Inome” or wild boars eye.  You can find info about it on this link-

 

https://www.mandarinmansion.com/glossary/inome

 

I am certain other members with much more knowledge than I have will tell you more!

 

With respect,

Dan

[ROKUJURO]

Vitaly,

TSUBA 1  (one piece construction) and 2 (photo 1) seem to be made in TSUCHI-ME technique (= hammered surface). Both TSUBA are not at all bad as far as I can see, but new/recent in my opinion.
TSUBA no. 3 with KATABAMI flower in the triangle looks also well made, but probably not old. The KO-SUKASHI is perhaps showing a 5 planet/star constellation similar to HOSOKAWA MON (9 stars).

TSUBA no. 4 (INOME and AMIDA YASURI ME) has a decoration of thin gold and a grey metal NUNOME which is not SAHARI (KAMEYAMA/HAZAMA school) but something else. These decorations could have been applied later on an otherwise authentic older SAOTOME or MYOCHIN TSUBA.

My observations are what I can offer after looking at (good) photos, but a safer assessment can only be made with the item in hand. 
 

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Vitaly,

 

So, it was stated in a post –

 

"TSUBA no. 3 with KATABAMI flower in the triangle looks also well made, but probably not old. The KO-SUKASHI is perhaps showing a 5 planet/star constellation similar to HOSOKAWA MON (9 stars)."

 

I have a book published in 1950 that shows about 7000 kamon symbols.  It shows the 5 circle kamon shown on your tsuba #3 (although it does not state which family it belongs to).

 

This website shows the kamon on tsuba #3 (or similar) on the 1st page fifth row, and also something on the 4th page 10th row.

 

https://www.morikunijapan.com/product/kamon/img/kamon.pdf?2020

 

So, I would say yes – definitely a family clan (kamon symbol).  So tsuba #3 shows 2 different kamon symbols.

 

Also, age of a tsuba can be difficult to determine.  Some old tsuba can look almost new, some newer tsuba can look old.  It can all depend on how they were taken care of and stored.

 

With respect,

Dan

 

[GoldenDrachen]

10 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

but new/recent in my opinion.

Hi Jean

Thank you so much! I always appreciate your opinion!

Just one question:

When saying: "new/recent" do you refer to Edo/ Meiji?

 

 

[FlorianB]

Hi Vitaly,

 

I think all these Tsuba have been made during the Edo-period.

 

It seems to me that the second Tsuba is lacquered. Such a rough lacquer structure was popular in the latter Edo-times. Here’s an example:

 

 

That’s the reason it has a fukurin, a separate ring for stabilization.

 

The Kamon-Tsuba shows some cloudy parts on the surface around the inlays as if someone polished those and abraded the patina, too. Gold needs no polish so I persume the inlays are made of brass (sentoku). The small ornaments are called karakusa or arabesque.

 

The last one has nunome of gold and obviously lead. Can’t imagine the design but it seems intenionally worn out maybe to allude to transciency.

 

Best, Florian

[GoldenDrachen]

43 minutes ago, FlorianB said:

It seems to me that the second Tsuba is lacquered

Hi Florian

Thank you! Very precise observation!

Now I can see that!

 

44 minutes ago, FlorianB said:

The Kamon-Tsuba shows some cloudy parts on the surface around the inlays as if someone polishe

Once again you are correct. Thorough study of the photos showing evidence of rubbing 

I guess that is s a "no" for this piece. 

 

46 minutes ago, FlorianB said:

The last one has nunome of gold and obviously lead. Can’t imagine the design but it seems intenionally worn out maybe to allude to transciency.

 

But that is not necessarily a bad thing? We definitely have something quite old and good, but perhaps with some later "improvements"?

[ROKUJURO]

2 hours ago, GoldenDrachen said:

.....When saying: "new/recent" do you refer to Edo/ Meiji?

Vitaly,

just judged by the photos, both TSUBA look rather unused and the shape of the NAKAGO ANA gives me a feeling of MEIJI or later. But of course I may be wrong.

[FlorianB]

Hi,

 

difficult to tell, if the nunome belongs to an originaI concept or was added later.
Here we have a later piece which shows some „mannerism“, in my eyes a touch to much.

 

Concerning the time a hint could be the niku, the concave or convex surface. If a Tsuba shows naka-daka, i.e. disc-shape (thicker in the middle, thinner at the rim) it is not earlier than Edo-period.

 

Best, Florian

[GoldenDrachen]

Thank you all very, very much!

It was as always very helpful, educational and of course very interesting.

 

Based on all information received, I think I will get the last one if price is right.

Then if I get it, I will make better pictures and we will revisit it again

Regards

Vitaly 

[GRC]

I'm leaning towards Jean's view on the first two. I don't see the kind of usage or wear I'd expect to see on an even a late Edo period tsuba. I also suspect these were made in the Meiji period (or even later, maybe even contemporary?), although they were made by a metalworker with some skill. 

All the edges of every tsuchime strike are crisp and clean, so there's no wear at all.

 

Florian, if you saw the listing on YahooJ, you can see that both tsuba are made from a single solid piece of a copper based plate, and in my opinion probably made by the same person.

 

Both are done with a very similar tsuchime technique (hammered texture), not lacquer. It's always difficult to tell with a limited number of views and dark photos. But it's more clear when you see all the images in the listing.

 

The second of the pair has a hammered back rim which you can see from the rough areas of hammered back copper, you don't get a clean edge along the surface of the plate like a proper fukurin would show.

 

This hammered back mimi had scratching applied to the outside to give it a subtle streaked "rain" effect, so it's not layers of steel, just hand textured copper alloy.

 

[GRC]

Detail of the first tsuba, complete with the outline scratch-mark for locating the boundary of the seppa-dai. 

...and perhaps a slightly better view of the rim and hammer work on the second one:

[FlorianB]

Glen, exactly this part at the edge looked sightly splintered so I thought of lacquer. Thanks for clearing up!

 

Concerning the time: Although that’s not out of question I want to remind that the lack of signs of wear at the nakago-ana or the seppa-dai not necessarily hint to Meiji or more recent periods, because since the 18th century Tsuba have been bought as gifts, souvenirs or collectibles without the intention of using them.

 

Best, Florian

[GRC]

True enough Florian. Definitely not out of the question 

Personally, I think they are a nice pair of tsuba, regardless of when they were made.