Tsuka with benefits.

[GoldenDrachen]

Hello gentlemen!

 

Here is something I purchased ( again!)

I have plans to try rewrapping tsuka. For this purpose I was looking for inexpensive, trashed koshirae. So I bought one. With closer look, all fittings, despite being in dirty condition, look not so bad. I might try to clean them also.

My question is:

In your opinion is it possible to clean all fittings (advice, tips)? Maybe restore golden guilt? As always I would be very interested to find out about motifs, possible era, school perhaps?

[O koumori]

Hi Vitaly,

 

For the fuchi, kashira, and menuki, try brushing gently using a SOFT toothbrush with mild soap and water. Then wipe with a moist cloth and dry thoroughly.

 

The tsuba is another matter; it looks badly rusted. Removing the active rust and re-patinating without damaging the tsuba is a lengthy process. Search the message board for threads related to this.

 

Dan K

 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello Vitaly,

 

I have about 120 tsuba.  Most are “low end” and rusted.  What I do is I take a toothbrush dipped in gun bore cleaner and brush the tsuba, then I take a rag and clean it and then let it dry.  After that I dip the tsuba in mineral oil and let it dry.  That way the “active rust” is stopped from continuing to spread.  Also, if you want, you can take a horsehair type shoe brush to the tsuba every day or so.  It will take about 6 months, but the tsuba will look better.  But that is too much work for me to do (I did it on one of my tsuba!).  Hey, that is good enough for me!  If I wanted a new looking 160 year old to about 400 year old tsuba, I would have bought one!

 

Maybe the above will work with the other pieces you have also?  Good luck with rewrapping the tsuka.  The tsuka looks like it has an old same (ray skin) on it.  So that is a good thing! It places an age on the tsuka and fittings.

 

Of course if you wish to repatinate and regild, that is beyond me!

 

Maybe other members will give you (better!) advice.

 

With respect,

Dan

[Spartancrest]

Vitaly the iron tsuba is beautiful and not so badly damaged as you might think from first impression, well worth 'bringing it back'. There are probably as many recipes for getting rid of rust as there are members on this forum. 

I would start 'easy' and maybe just boil in water for a few minutes, wipe off, make  sure it is dry - you will have a better impression of what needs doing after that. I have seen Dan's example and it works and is not detrimental to the metal. I am sure you will get plenty of other methods and plenty who will say leave it alone - try the doctors creed "do no harm" 

[GoldenDrachen]

Thank you all for the response!

 

I understand that intrusive methods should not be used for this kind of work. I have been reading some articles here and in other places, but all of them lacking visuals. Like before and after, that would help to evaluate initial condition to choose appropriate way of dealing with problem.

 

I have experience with gold leaf, which I intend to use on fuchi and kashira. Silver for faces gold for the body. I am not ready for the way Ford Hallam uses in his video with amalgam and mercury.

Yet I am not sure about chemical re-patination.  Is this acceptable for this time if restoration?

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:08 AM, GoldenDrachen said:

.....Yet I am not sure about chemical re-patination.  Is this acceptable for this time of restoration?

Vitaly, 

patination is always chemical, be that induced by an artist or air/climate. Gold leaf - as we know it from the Western world - is not being used in Japanese arts, if I am corrtectlöy informed. This should then be avoided. 

[GoldenDrachen]

16 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Vitaly, 

patination is always chemical, be that induced by an artist or air/climate. Gold leaf - as we know it from the Western world - is not being used in Japanese arts, if I am corrtectlöy informed. This should then be avoided. 

Thank you for the tip!

Then I will try foil. I believe keum boo technique is suitable. Little bit more difficult and involves torch, but I guess I should stick to traditional ways.

Regards

Vitaly 

[1kinko]

Yup, gold leaf was never used although gold foil was used to overlay using the uttering (bag) method. However, unless the fire gilding is over rusted iron there should be no need to regild since the gold is still firmly attached to the underlying kinko base metal. If you are concerned over basic wearing down of the gold (an aspect cherished by many collectors as a sign of age and wabi-sabi) a competent jeweler can electroplate just those areas by masking the areas not to be gilded.

[GoldenDrachen]

Now I am confused. But eager to get to the bottom of it 

It actually looks like gold leaf used in Japan for centuries

https://enkanazawa.hakuichi.co.jp/about/kinpaku_history.php

Can't see the reason why these techniques couldn't been used for decorating tosogu.

Maybe I am wrong?

Please point me at some resources where I can read about traditional methods used in decoration of tsuba, fuchi etc.

 

As I can understand, any modern technology will work for my purpose, I mean visually,  But out of curiosity I would really like to know about traditional methods.

 

Thank you in advance

Vitaly 

[rematron]

Is the terminology difference between 'gold leaf' and 'gold foil' being confused here or in the article?  I only recently learned that they are not synonymous. 

[GoldenDrachen]

10 minutes ago, rematron said:

Is the terminology difference between 'gold leaf' and 'gold foil' being confused here or in the article?  I only recently learned that they are not synonymous. 

I clearly understand difference between foil and leaf. Leaf needs sizing, foil mechanically applied to the metal surface. 

At this stage I would like to understand which techniques were used in tosogu decoration.

Confusion comes from info above that gold leaf more western, but article about Kanazawa states, that it was used for a quiet a long time in Japan, and came from China. BTW gold foil techniques, I believe, came from Korea.

[1kinko]

Everybody should own Markus Sesko’s Handbook of Sword Fittings related terms as well as his Encyclopedia of Japanese Swords. 

[vajo]

Looks like modern stuff. Its some old yes. 

You can't do something wrong if it was cheap. 

Have fun.

[1kinko]

For those of us who enjoy (?) deciphering Google Translate, here’s another useful book. 

[GoldenDrachen]

36 minutes ago, vajo said:

Looks like modern stuff. Its some old yes. 

You can't do something wrong if it was cheap. 

Have fun.

Of course. That is the point. I am not afraid to ruin it. Because it is highly unlikely.

But it won't hurt to do it more or less properly.

Got all of it for less than a 100.

It will come by post in couple of weeks time. So I was thinking that I can prepare. 

 

 

[GoldenDrachen]

1 hour ago, 1kinko said:

Everybody should own Markus Sesko’s Handbook of Sword Fittings related terms as well as his Encyclopedia of Japanese Swords. 

I actually reading his website now - extremely educational.  Especially part about tsuba anesthetics.

Will get the book definitely!

 

 

[Franco]

33 minutes ago, GoldenDrachen said:

Especially part about tsuba anesthetics.

 

Tsuba to kill or ease pain.

 

I think you may have something there. Will give it a try!

 

 

Regards,

[ROKUJURO]

Vitaly,

I was talking about TOSOGU (metal partts of the sword). Gold leaf was used extensively in religious context.

[GoldenDrachen]

3 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Vitaly,

I was talking about TOSOGU (metal partts of the sword). Gold leaf was used extensively in religious context.

Thank you.

All clear now.