Need help authenticating whether this blade is of value.

[VoidedAbyss]

 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello Austin,

 

Welcome to this great forum!

 

I feel that you are excited about the sword you own or want to purchase.  However, there are better photographs most likely needed before members on the forum can give you advice on the blade. 

 

There is a thread (just below yours) titled “Instructions for people wanting opinions”.  I would recommend that you review that thread and submit the best pictures that you can (I myself am not an expert photographer-far from it!), and give it your best try!

 

I hope that your blade turns out to be something that may give you pleasure for years to come.

 

With respect,

Dan

[xiayang]

It's a WW2 blade.

 

濃州住土岐亮信作 = Nōshū-jū Toki Akinobu saku (made by Toki Akinobu from Nōshū province)

[Stephen]

Austin 

I see you got your translation.

In the future make sure phots have tang end down.

[Stephen]

Austin like so 

 

 

 

[mecox]

Jan is correct, but  亮信 in this case is read as Sukenobu not Akinobu.   Family name is Toki.  There were two brothers Sukenobu and Kanemasa  making swords in WW2.   Family background and examples here:

 

 

 

[John C]

Austin:

Some additional info about the blade. The small stamp looks like a Gifu stamp, which would be correct for an Army WW2 blade. The white painted numbers (3, ?, 6, 1) on the tang are assembly numbers and may or may not match the numbers on the rest of the parts (46 in your case). It is good that all of those parts have the same number. The handle, however, looks like it has been recently re-wrapped. Difficult to say without better pics of it. And not sure, but the hamon looks like a classic oil quench to me. This all adds up to a standard Showato from WW2. Probably a type 94 or 98. It would have been carried by an officer.

John C.

[Mark S.]

And it would be helpful if you would define ‘value’.  Value is a very subjective term.  By ‘value’, do you mean real and authentic?  Well then yes, it is a real WW2 era blade.  It has ‘value’ to some who collect WW2 era blades but less value to those who only collect earlier blades.  If you like it, can afford it, and enjoy it, then it has value to you.

[Michaelr]

Well said Mark

   MikeR

[VoidedAbyss]

I appreciate everyone’s experience and expert advice. I have a few things to say.

 

First of all, my apologies for the bad pictures in some cases and posting the signature upside down. Won’t happen again.

 

Secondly about the hamon: what’s the meaning behind “classic oil quench” 

 

Lastly to answer your question Mark S: value to me is as a collector of authentic blades from history I’d like to know if this blade holds historical and collector value for military swords and in your opinions if it’s worth below $1k or over $1k as a general estimate.

[John C]

1 hour ago, VoidedAbyss said:

what’s the meaning behind “classic oil quench” 

Austin:

Traditionally, Nihonto are hand forged from a steel called tamahagane, clay applied (which gives the hamon its shape), then water quenched. During the war, the demand for blades necessitated speeding up the process. So for Showato blades, smiths used "mill" steel, machine presses, and oil quenching (which is more reliable and safer for the blade than water quenching). This oil quenching leaves tell-tale signs. What that means in terms of collecting is a difference in "traditional" versus "modern" production techniques. And, a difference in quality and value, in most cases. Some blades during the war were made in the traditional manner. We call these Gendaito (though that is somewhat of a misnomer since it just means "new sword). Many of these can be identified by not only the water quenched hamon, but also the star stamp. The smiths that made these blades we refer to as RJT smiths. These traditionally made, water quenched blades generally carry a higher value than the modern oil quenched versions. 

John C.

[Matsunoki]

Also…..is the kissaki (tip) in good condition can’t quite see from the images but looks like it might be reshaped? Does the hamon follow the curve of the tip edge or run off the end of the blade? This is pretty critical to the $value.

[VoidedAbyss]

Matsunoki: hopefully these images help you with your question

[Matsunoki]

Nope, they don’t help. I had already seen them. I am talking about just the tip section of the blade. It looks a bit stubby as if a chip may have been ground out. If the hamon (tempered edge) now runs off the end of the blade instead of following the shape of the tip it dramatically impacts the financial value. The hamon in the kissaki is called “boshi”…..have a look on this forum for examples or simply do a bit of research on Google…..or post some clear closeups of that area.

[John C]

I would also advise taking a clean, soft rag and rubbing alcohol and wiping the finger prints off of the blade.

John C.

[VoidedAbyss]

Hey John C. Yes couldn’t agree more will definitely do that if I buy the blade. 
 

also to Matsunoki: I hope these pictures help you more. 

[Matsunoki]

Nope still can’t see a boshi although at these angles the kissaki does at least look a better shape. It might be fine….

your money, your decision.

[VoidedAbyss]

Matsonuki: I think I got it right this time

[Matsunoki]

Nope, still can’t see it. 
Anyone else have an opinion? You guys are the real experts on these?

[Bazza]

I'm no 'real expert', but using the vernacular the point (kissaki) looks 'dicked with'.  The bohi on an 'oily' looks interesting, but unless a 'real deal' can be done there are probably better value for money swords 'out there'.

 

BaZZa.

[Bruce Pennington]

Austin,

For those of us who collect WWII gunto, they ALL hold historical value.  I do not follow the smiths, but the price of a WWII gunto can be higher if the blade was made by a popular smith, like Emura or Mantetsu (ok not a "smith"), I don't know where Sukenobu falls in that category, @mecox might have a feel for that.  Average WWII gunto pricing is a bit wobbly in the market right now, but they are traditionally in the $900-1,400 range.  Variation mostly depends upon the condition of the gunto.  You don't show the fittings, and that can affect price.

 

To my novice - grasshoppa' eyes, I'd say this is showato (non-traditionally made) and the stamp is the Showa stamp.  The blade is a nice one with a good looking hamon and the bohi is popular with some collectors.  Assuming the fittings are nice, it would easily sell above the 1,000 mark.

 

Showa comparison:

[VoidedAbyss]

I appreciate that. This next batch of pictures is what I took today. I’m hopeful they can give some details that were missing in the others. The grip is a tad bit loose when holding it up if that makes any significant difference 

[Matsunoki]

The hamon is clearly visible on the blade but no matter how hard I look I cannot see any trace of it within the kissaki (tip section) 

only my opinion but I think the kissaki has been reshaped and possibly lightly abraded to conceal the possible problem  ie the hamon runs off the end of the blade ie “dicked with” as Barry said.

You have the sword in hand and we don’t …..can you see a clear continuation of the hamon into the kissaki and it continuing to flow around the curvature of the edge. Does the kissaki look more scratched than the rest of the blade….be suspicious. If a chip has been ground out of the kissaki the hardened edge can be totally lost in the process. I don’t know how else to try and explain it. If you can see it, even if it’s narrow that’s good news.

 

[Eds]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125958954597

 

saw this on ebay.  . . . . ..

[John C]

Looks a bit like someone took some metal polish to it.

John C.