Translation help for tang with gold inlay->body-cutting test, unidentifiable characters, questionable nengo, etc.

[mickie]

Hi there!

 

My Aunt's dad apparently received this sword at the end of WWII from a Japanese officer while he was serving there, and I have been appointed the task of researching it. I know nothing about Japanese swords but I thought it would be a fun challenge. However I have already spent two weeks on this and I am desperate for some help. Firstly, I apologize for not knowing all of the Japanese terms for everything, I'm learning.

 

*Some of the gold inlay had fallen out so I used a drawing app to fill in the missing parts on these photos.

 

So far I believe it is saying "in the Autumn, leap 8th month of Genna", sooo like 1623-1624ish? However, I'm unsure of the era because the second kanji of what I think is Genna (元和) is written as 味, not 和. I am lost already. 

I could be sooo wrong about this, but I think the next kanji, 雒, is referring to Kyoto? It's an alternative form of 洛, which according to Wiktionary (I know, I know) is often used to refer to Kyoto. 

The next one, I have NO idea about. I've spent days hunting around. It looks like a trident.

After that, I believe 䑓野重 is referring to Rendaino, an old cemetery established just north of Heian-kyō, famous partly for being the site of one of Miyamoto Musashi's battles.

As for the rest of the line, I'm too burnt out to try, especially as I have no idea what that last character is. Please help??

 

And for the sword-smith, I recognize 伊賀守作 as Iga no Kami made, but isn't this only referring to the title of the sword-smith and not specifying who it actually is? 

 

Is this even real or am I wasting my time?

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

*Also I'm awaiting pics of the blade from my uncle.

 

Thanks so much,

Mickie

[John C]

Mickie:

I'm not one of the translators, who I am sure will be along shortly, however I can tell you that is going to be one heck of a blade if it is in good shape. I am waiting myself to find out what it says!

John C.

[SteveM]

It's a cutting test (the sword's sharpness was tested on two bodies stacked one on top of the other). I can't pick out the ones in red. I'm guessing at one or two of the others, but given the context it feels obvious (the tester's name). He is a known historical figure. 

 

1. 元和九年秋閏八月於雒北蓮臺野重二人生胴而囗囗中川佐平太斬焉

2. 其胴二俱截断餘   

3. 勢入囗囗尺乃號之日上品　

4. 伊賀守作喜多見左門所持之

 

1. Genna 9 (1623) leap-August, North Kyōto Rendaino (village). Two bodies stacked up and cut through at the chest by test-cutter Nakagawa Saheita.  

2. Cut through two bodies easily? (guessing a bit).

3. I can't get the meaning after the above (but you have most of the kanji right). Hopefully someone can fill in the blanks.

4. Made by Iga-no-kami. Property of Kitami Samon.

 

 

Note: 咊 is a variant of 和.

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

One of the earliest recorded Tameshigiri-Mei was by Nakagawa Saheita in 1614, so this is quite early. He lived in Edo and had a rather upmarket clientele that consisted of Daimyo from many regions. There is a chapter on him in this excellent book by Markus Sesko:

 

https://www.lulu.com/shop/markus-sesko/e-tameshigiri/ebook/product-21700689.html?page=1&pageSize=4

 

With more pictures of the blade it may be possible to determine which of the Iga No Kami smiths this is, from the date of the test there's a good chance it is 1st Generation Iga No Kami Kinmichi.

[Nobody]

(1)  元咊九年秋閏八月於雒之蓮臺野 – Genna 9^th year (1623) autumn, leap 8^th month, at Rendaino in Kyoto, (咊 is an old style of 和.)

(2)  重二人之胴而俾中川左平太斬焉其胴二倶截断 – two bodies were stacked up and made Nakagawa Saheita cut through the bodies.

(3)  餘勢入▢▢尺乃號元日上品 – (my guesswork) With the excessive momentum, the blade cut into the mound several feet (≒尺). (I am unsure after that.)

(4)  伊賀守作喜多見左門所持之 – Made by Iga no kami, Property of Kitami Samon (same as Steve M)

[PNSSHOGUN]

Noting the blade continued deep into the mound after the two bodies were cut is a further confirmation of how well the blade performed. That is to say, it likely would've cut through more bodies if they had them.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Hi Mickie , congratulatons on having a go at translating this yourself . I was pretty impressed with what you achieved . Too many collectors here will not attempt a translation and will thus remain ignorant forever.Well done

Ian Brooks

[Brian]

Agree with Ian

[ROKUJURO]

8 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Noting the blade continued deep into the mound after the two bodies were cut is a further confirmation of how well the blade performed. That is to say, it likely would've cut through more bodies if they had them.

John,

I would like to propose a new test with more bodies. Right away I could name a few candidates (= living politicians) who deserve to become famous this way! 

[Bruce Pennington]

13 hours ago, mickie said:

*Also I'm awaiting pics of the blade from my uncle.

Mickie,

Welcome to NMB!  We have a growing group of Colorado collectors! A couple in C-Springs and a couple in Denver.

 

When the pics come in, I'd enjoy seeing the rest of the fittings as well.  Nice looking sword.  Old, family swords were usually refitted, like yours, with a military handle (tsuka) and handguard (tsuba), then leather cover over either the original wooden scabbard (saya) or a new one.  The style is referred to as a Type 98 officer sword (gunto).

[jesse]

Mickie, I will also join the group on congratulating you.

I have never seen a post requesting translation help with the detail and effort you have shown prior to requesting help.

I have a 2 bodies cut test sword from 1672 and really enjoy when I see posts with blades that have gone through Tamishigiri.

 

Warm Regards,

[mickie]

On 3/19/2023 at 5:04 PM, mickie said:

Hi there!

 

My Aunt's dad apparently received this sword at the end of WWII from a Japanese officer while he was serving there, and I have been appointed the task of researching it. I know nothing about Japanese swords but I thought it would be a fun challenge. However I have already spent two weeks on this and I am desperate for some help. Firstly, I apologize for not knowing all of the Japanese terms for everything, I'm learning.

 

*Some of the gold inlay had fallen out so I used a drawing app to fill in the missing parts on these photos.

 

So far I believe it is saying "in the Autumn, leap 8th month of Genna", sooo like 1623-1624ish? However, I'm unsure of the era because the second kanji of what I think is Genna (元和) is written as 味, not 和. I am lost already. 

I could be sooo wrong about this, but I think the next kanji, 雒, is referring to Kyoto? It's an alternative form of 洛, which according to Wiktionary (I know, I know) is often used to refer to Kyoto. 

The next one, I have NO idea about. I've spent days hunting around. It looks like a trident.

After that, I believe 䑓野重 is referring to Rendaino, an old cemetery established just north of Heian-kyō, famous partly for being the site of one of Miyamoto Musashi's battles.

As for the rest of the line, I'm too burnt out to try, especially as I have no idea what that last character is. Please help??

 

And for the sword-smith, I recognize 伊賀守作 as Iga no Kami made, but isn't this only referring to the title of the sword-smith and not specifying who it actually is? 

 

Is this even real or am I wasting my time?

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

*Also I'm awaiting pics of the blade from my uncle.

 

Thanks so much,

Mickie

 

Wow, so first of all, my SINCEREST apologies to everyone who took the time to reply-I never received any notifications of this, so for the last several months I just thought no one had ever responded, and I decided to let it drop, and moved on to a different project. I only revisited this today, and was shocked to see all of your comments! Thank you so so much, all of you, for your help and support! The photos my uncle sent were pretty awful quality so I'm going to visit him soon and take some better ones myself haha. I will absolutely post them here after. 

[Curran]

On 3/20/2023 at 2:55 AM, Ian B3HR2UH said:

Hi Mickie , congratulatons on having a go at translating this yourself . I was pretty impressed with what you achieved . Too many collectors here will not attempt a translation and will thus remain ignorant forever.Well done

Ian Brooks

 

I was impressed by the effort. Most people just want it spoon-fed to them.

Also quite a difficult one to start with, and a very interesting one.

@mickie  please post more photos of the blade whenever possible.

[Bazza]

@mickie G'day Mickie, dunno how I missed this.  What a stunner you are.  Agree 100% with @Ian B3HR2UH and then some.  Very impressive.  There are many dyed in the wool collectors who could not have achieved what you have.  I with everyone else around the Nihontou world will follow the story of your sword.  If genuine (it looks good) and if restoration is desired by your family the sword must only be seen by the highest caliber of professional in Japan.

Regards and best wishes,

Barry Thomas

aka BaZZa

Melbourne, Australia.

[mickie]

On 7/9/2023 at 8:35 PM, Curran said:

 

I was impressed by the effort. Most people just want it spoon-fed to them.

Also quite a difficult one to start with, and a very interesting one.

@mickie  please post more photos of the blade whenever possible.

 

On 7/11/2023 at 1:44 AM, Bazza said:

@mickie G'day Mickie, dunno how I missed this.  What a stunner you are.  Agree 100% with @Ian B3HR2UH and then some.  Very impressive.  There are many dyed in the wool collectors who could not have achieved what you have.  I with everyone else around the Nihontou world will follow the story of your sword.  If genuine (it looks good) and if restoration is desired by your family the sword must only be seen by the highest caliber of professional in Japan.

Regards and best wishes,

Barry Thomas

aka BaZZa

Melbourne, Australia.

Thank you so much, Curran and Bazza! I've always loved challenges-the harder the better. I have to admit though, I've had the luxury of time to immerse myself in this as I've been put on strict medical rest for a while-if I was still in school or working when my uncle showed me this sword, I would have just immediately asked for help haha. I will definitely post an update once I get those pics! Thanks again for all the help and support!

[mickie]

On 3/19/2023 at 6:22 PM, SteveM said:

It's a cutting test (the sword's sharpness was tested on two bodies stacked one on top of the other). I can't pick out the ones in red. I'm guessing at one or two of the others, but given the context it feels obvious (the tester's name). He is a known historical figure. 

 

1. 元和九年秋閏八月於雒北蓮臺野重二人生胴而囗囗中川佐平太斬焉

2. 其胴二俱截断餘   

3. 勢入囗囗尺乃號之日上品　

4. 伊賀守作喜多見左門所持之

 

1. Genna 9 (1623) leap-August, North Kyōto Rendaino (village). Two bodies stacked up and cut through at the chest by test-cutter Nakagawa Saheita.  

2. Cut through two bodies easily? (guessing a bit).

3. I can't get the meaning after the above (but you have most of the kanji right). Hopefully someone can fill in the blanks.

4. Made by Iga-no-kami. Property of Kitami Samon.

 

 

Note: 咊 is a variant of 和.

 

 

 

On 3/19/2023 at 6:34 PM, PNSSHOGUN said:

One of the earliest recorded Tameshigiri-Mei was by Nakagawa Saheita in 1614, so this is quite early. He lived in Edo and had a rather upmarket clientele that consisted of Daimyo from many regions. There is a chapter on him in this excellent book by Markus Sesko:

 

https://www.lulu.com...ml?page=1&pageSize=4

 

With more pictures of the blade it may be possible to determine which of the Iga No Kami smiths this is, from the date of the test there's a good chance it is 1st Generation Iga No Kami Kinmichi.

 

On 3/19/2023 at 7:53 PM, Nobody said:

(1)  元咊九年秋閏八月於雒之蓮臺野 – Genna 9^th year (1623) autumn, leap 8^th month, at Rendaino in Kyoto, (咊 is an old style of 和.)

(2)  重二人之胴而俾中川左平太斬焉其胴二倶截断 – two bodies were stacked up and made Nakagawa Saheita cut through the bodies.

(3)  餘勢入▢▢尺乃號元日上品 – (my guesswork) With the excessive momentum, the blade cut into the mound several feet (≒尺). (I am unsure after that.)

(4)  伊賀守作喜多見左門所持之 – Made by Iga no kami, Property of Kitami Samon (same as Steve M)

 

On 3/20/2023 at 6:36 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Mickie,

Welcome to NMB!  We have a growing group of Colorado collectors! A couple in C-Springs and a couple in Denver.

 

When the pics come in, I'd enjoy seeing the rest of the fittings as well.  Nice looking sword.  Old, family swords were usually refitted, like yours, with a military handle (tsuka) and handguard (tsuba), then leather cover over either the original wooden scabbard (saya) or a new one.  The style is referred to as a Type 98 officer sword (gunto).

Ok once again, so so so sorry I never saw any of these replies until this week!! I was so surprised and psyched to see them-I truly thought no one had replied. Thank you so much for filling in those holes in the translation, I was slowly losing my mind out of frustration...the knowledge and expertise you have all acquired about these swords and the languages is just mind-blowing and beyond impressive. I'm in the midst of trying to find a day to visit my uncle and get good pics of the blade (it's a five hour round-trip drive) and I'll be very excited to share those with everyone. I have some questions in the meantime though that I was hoping to get some help with?

 

So the year of the cutting test is 1623 (thank you for confirming!!)-should it be assumed that this is the same year the sword was made since there's no other date inscribed? Or is it possible this test was done several years after?

 

Are there any good resources out there that may have information about who the original owner, Kitami Samon, was? Or his family? As I understand it, only the super-wealthy could afford to pay for a test like this...

 

If this is actually a 1st gen Kinmichi sword, how rare does that make it??

 

Thanks so much again in advance!

 

-Mickie

 

 

[Geraint]

Dear Mickie.

 

Just a few thoughts to add to the pile.  Setting aside the prospect of forgery for the moment it is unlikely that Iga no Kami Kinmichi would make a sword and not sign it.  You ask how rare the sword is and the answer comes in two parts; kinzogan mei are rare and desirable, a sword by this smith would be significant.  Lets assume that everything is OK with this sword and the cutting test, we have a date and we know that the sword must have ben made at least just before that date.  Often signed swords have the kinzogan mei put on the other side of the nakago from the original signature but in this case there is no original signature.

It is a possibility that this is a sword by Kinmichi which has been shortened, you can only do this by removing material at the nakago end because the hardened edge continues into the kissaki or tip and removing that ruins the sword.  There is a style of shortening, or suriage, called Tensho suriage where the nakago is carefully reshaped and given a nakago jiri shape so that it looks just like your sword but the mei may well have been lost.

 

Given the date of the test we know that the sword must be at least that old.  As PNSShogun, aka John, said this means that there is a good chance that this sword might be first generation.  If so then he was a pupil of Korikawa Kunihiro who is regarded as one of, if not the foremost smith of that time.

 

Now would be a good time to get an image of the whole blade with all the fittings removed including the habaki and some shots along the blade which show the hamon if it is visible.

 

Before you do that please go to the FAQ system link at the top of the page and have a look at the section on caring for Japanese swords. Don't do anything more than wipe the blade section, not the nakago with a light oil at this stage.

 

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

 

All the best.

[tbonesullivan]

FYI, if you are good with drawing with your mouse, I have found this tool to be invaluable in translating Japanese and tangs. I've had to run for help a lot less since I got used to using this.

 

https://kanji.sljfaq.org/