Does a KUNIKANE spreadsheet make sense?

[Peter Bleed]

After Matsunoki-sama got us looking at the – ahhh – interesting shin-shinto Kunikane tanto, I got out some older notes and files on the KUNIKANE line. (Thank you! Colin!). One thing led to another and I bumped into  a big old file I had forgotten. Several years ago I tried to pour the KUNIKANE genealogy into an EXCEL file. I have no skill with the program, or computer Nihongo, or the Kunikane genealogy. But it is kind of interesting to see how the “line” was organized.

Should I/could I post that file here and would anybody find it interesting?

Peter

 

[Bazza]

Peter et al, what I found interesting was the revelation (previous NMB discussions) that in the Meiji period a 'stack' of unsigned swords were found in  a warehouse that were produced by the Kunikane line.  These were subsequently 'signed' and marketed.  A friend has a Kunikane katana that we put up at one of the Sydney, Australia, Shinsa (2011?) and it was pinked to late Edo Kunikane.  I'll dig out the oshigata and reject slip and put them here for the conversation.

 

BaZZa.

[Vermithrax16]

I would be interested and would work it up. I like that sort of thing.

[Shuko]

40 minutes ago, Bazza said:

Peter et al, what I found interesting was the revelation (previous NMB discussions) that in the Meiji period a 'stack' of unsigned swords were found in  a warehouse that were produced by the Kunikane line.  These were subsequently 'signed' and marketed.  A friend has a Kunikane katana that we put up at one of the Sydney, Australia, Shinsa (2011?) and it was pinked to late Edo Kunikane.  I'll dig out the oshigata and reject slip and put them here for the conversation.

 

BaZZa.

 

Are there any events or shows coming up in OZ this year apart from the knife show in QLD ? 

[Brian]

I'd be happy to host the file in the downloads section. Sounds very useful Peter.

[Matsunoki]

5 hours ago, Bazza said:

Peter et al, what I found interesting was the revelation (previous NMB discussions)

Barry, can you direct me to these discussions please? 
Many thanks. All the best. Colin

[Bazza]

Colin,

 

I chuckled when I read your question and said to myself "Now where in all the NMB was it??"  A quick check showed 9 pages of KUNIKANE discussions!!!  I knew it was a long time ago, so I went to page 9 and - VOILA:

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/6699-kunikane-genuine-of-fake-mei-on-katana/#comment-65485

Name: Peter Bleed

Posted November 26, 2010

There are a great many bad Kunikane signatures out there, largely because the Kunikane 1 successfully started a long line of smiths that survived and was supported by the Date family. There were 14 generations in the main line. They practiced the style of the founder and enjoyed official support. The middle generations produced mumei swords that went right into the armory of the Date family. (Sendai meikan lists NO legitmate signatures from the 4th to 10th generations.) After the Meiji Restoration those unsigned swords were sold to an antiques dealer - apparently in Sendai - who had them signed --- mainly with the Master's name. Dealers refer to these as "Sendai Atobori." They can be viewed as "school"swords, but those "after signatures" are being removed nowadays. That is, they are being treated like "gimei."

I am as sure as I can be that the sword that got this discussion started is not the work of Kunikane 1.

Peter

Sheer luck Colin, sheer luck.

BaZZa.

[Matsunoki]

8 minutes ago, Bazza said:

so I went to page 9 and - VOILA:

Many thanks Bazza!! Greatly appreciate your help. All somewhat confusing and shrouded in a bit of “mist”!

Nothing new there🙂

The Tanto I posted seems to be bang on for the school but as for who signed and dated it….who knows. I thinks it’s an interesting blade anyway.

Again, thanks. All the best. Colin

 

[Peter Bleed]

Here is my attempt to present the Kunikane line -- against the whole chronology of the Edo period.

Peter

Kunikane Line.xlsx

[Vermithrax16]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:30 PM, Peter Bleed said:

Here is my attempt to present the Kunikane line -- against the whole chronology of the Edo period.

Peter

Kunikane Line.xlsx 31.47 kB · 16 downloads

I worked with Peter's Excel to make an easy visual chart. Hope it's useful.

[Brian]

I was hoping for something a bit more intuitive. Peter did great work, but it could use a bit of an aesthetic upgrade. Will take a look shortly, and make sure it is uploaded in a few days. Thanks both!

[Peter Bleed]

Sorry, I had my ears off for a bit, Jeremiah has certainly improved the presentation. And I certainly have got to address the 5th generation. That is the hole in my research and in the spreadsheet. Did everyone see the picture of the burial spot of the entire Kunikane line that is shown in the latest issue of Token Bijutsu? They are "buried" in a nice tight circle that is a tourist stop in Sendai.

Peter