Info on "Rustic" Tsubas? (Tsuchimeji?)

[chuck]

Ok, you're all pretty aware by now that I'm a newbie and I've not a clue what I'm doing, but I've been starting to educate myself. I've gotten a couple of books on fittings and such, and i've been checking out websites whenever I can.

 

I discovered that I like the "rustic" tsubas an awful lot. I love the rough textured tsuchiemji finish. I have two now, and when I'm reading I'll turn them over and over in my hands. The texture and weight seems to calm me.

 

But the books that I've got seem to focus more on the elaborate carvings of the Goto school, and the openwork sukashi style. Where can I go to find out more info about hammered tsubas and the smiths who made them?

 

My first question would be: why are they referred to as "rustic"? Were they actually favored by country samurai, or is this just a stylistic term?

 

Thanks!

 

peace.

[Henry Wilson]

Hi Chuck

 

Do you have any pics to illustrate the kind of tsuba you mean? Are you talking about katchushi and tosho tsuba? If so check out the following links.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/oldiron.htm

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/oldiron2.htm

[chuck]

I mean the kind of tsuba where the iron has been extensively hammered into almost a landscape. There's a poor example here:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0330236910

 

More examples, but reproductions, here:

 

http://www.swordstore.com/cgi-bin/htmlo ... 9018670251

 

and here:

 

http://www.swordstore.com/cgi-bin/htmlo ... 4318670251

 

One is referred to as "Tembo". Is there a Tembo school?

 

Thanks.

 

peace.

[Pete Klein]

If I might be so bold which texts do you own?

[Rich S]

Yes, there was a group of tsuba referred to as Tembo, NBTHK and NTHK

have both papered them as such (I have one). Tembo basically means

those tsuba with stamped designs; commonly Kanji, but other designs also.

Here's a link to my page on them.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/tsuba/saotome.htm

 

Rich S

[Soshin]

I discovered that I like the "rustic" tsubas an awful lot. I love the rough textured tsuchiemji finish. I have two now, and when I'm reading I'll turn them over and over in my hands. The texture and weight seems to calm me.

 

But the books that I've got seem to focus more on the elaborate carvings of the Goto school, and the openwork sukashi style. Where can I go to find out more info about hammered tsubas and the smiths who made them?

 

My first question would be: why are they referred to as "rustic"? Were they actually favored by country samurai, or is this just a stylistic term?

 

Thanks!

 

peace.

In regards of Tsuchimeji tsuba be used by country Samurai (i.e. Goshi) I am not sure. I currently have two tsuba(s) that both belong to the Tembo school and also have Tsuchimeji. The type of surface is very common in Tembo school but it is not excluive to the school. I have another tsuba that belongs to the Shoami school of the late Edo period that also has a Tsuchimeji surface. I hope you find this information helpful. Check out Dr. S. website he has much information on tsuba of the Tembo school. Here is another website with additional information and many photos of Yamashiro Tembo tsuba(s).

http://www.shibuiswords.com/BITsuba2.htm

 

 

Yours truly,

David (Soshin)

[chuck]

If I might be so bold which texts do you own?

 

I picked up "Lethal Elegance" and a couple of smaller books from Japan, that are in Japanese that I am unable to read, but have lots of stunning pictures.

 

I also picked up the book of blades from the British Museum, but I haven't started trying to wade through the text yet.

 

In regards of Tsuchimeji tsuba be used by country Samurai (i.e. Goshi) I am not sure. I currently have two tsuba(s) that both belong to the Tembo school and also have Tsuchimeji. The type of surface is very common in Tembo school but it is not excluive to the school. I have another tsuba that belongs to the Shoami school of the late Edo period that also has a Tsuchimeji surface. I hope you find this information helpful. Check out Dr. S. website he has much information on tsuba of the Tembo school. Here is another website with additional information and many photos of Yamashiro Tembo tsuba(s).

http://www.shibuiswords.com/BITsuba2.htm

 

 

Yours truly,

David (Soshin)

 

Thanks for that site! It's interesting the contrast between these rougher tsuba and the Goto-style ones featured in 'Lethal Elegance". I'm assuming historically the rougher ones came first, and the more elaborate carvings developed later?

 

The thing I like about the Tsuchimeiji tsubas is that they seem to be cheaper, and so I can collect more of them. :D

 

peace.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Chuck,

 

first off, welcome to the wonderful world of old rusty steel ... from what you wrote about these guards calming you I suspect your love affair may be quite serious...no cure I'm afraid but we do act as a support group too. :D

 

A few thoughts came to mind as I read this thread so I hope you won't mind my rather pedantic contribution

 

I think it worth pointing out that the use of the word "rustic" is obviously very subjective here. It isn't a recognised classification of any specific group of guards.

 

The other problem with using this adjective lies in it's definition; "simple and unsophisticated or rough and unrefined". here we enter a minefield in terms of aesthetic assessment...especially in this field.

 

Very frequently we see very simple work that is extremely sophisticated but to inexperienced eyes this is not always apparent. We also often encounter work that is quite rough and unrefined....that is in fact simply just poor quality work, and not an expression of any sort of Goshi aesthetic sensibility.

 

I only mention these thought as I think that by sticking with such a loose, and ultimately unhelpful description you may in fact hinder your appreciation varieties of the work you are drawn to.

 

regards,

 

Ford

[Pete Klein]

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm

 

This is a very good site and the bibliography list is well worth perusing.

 

A word of friendly warning about books. There are none that have all the answers and as time goes by attributions and theories are sometimes called into question. Use them as a starting point; a pictorial 'base' so you can see differences between 'schools' and go from there. And remember that hands on is always best so go to the shows whenever possible.

 

Here's an example of tsuchime ji utilized as background for highest caliber work:

 

[chuck]

Hi Chuck,

 

first off, welcome to the wonderful world of old rusty steel ... from what you wrote about these guards calming you I suspect your love affair may be quite serious...no cure I'm afraid but we do act as a support group too. :D

 

A few thoughts came to mind as I read this thread so I hope you won't mind my rather pedantic contribution

 

I think it worth pointing out that the use of the word "rustic" is obviously very subjective here. It isn't a recognised classification of any specific group of guards.

 

The other problem with using this adjective lies in it's definition; "simple and unsophisticated or rough and unrefined". here we enter a minefield in terms of aesthetic assessment...especially in this field.

 

Very frequently we see very simple work that is extremely sophisticated but to inexperienced eyes this is not always apparent. We also often encounter work that is quite rough and unrefined....that is in fact simply just poor quality work, and not an expression of any sort of Goshi aesthetic sensibility.

 

I only mention these thought as I think that by sticking with such a loose, and ultimately unhelpful description you may in fact hinder your appreciation varieties of the work you are drawn to.

 

regards,

 

Ford

 

I picked up on the word "rustic" because it was being used by Japanese dealers to describe these tsubas on eBay and a few other sites. I'm curious if we're loosing something in the translation from the Japanese.

 

How do you tell the difference between a tsuchimeji or Tembo masterwork and an iron plate some apprentice has whaled on with a hammer for a couple of hours? At this stage, I'm just like "ooooh! That's a neat texture!" I'm definitely in need of further schooling.

 

I'm noticing that only very rarely do quality tsuba seem to be offered for sale to us here in the states. Other than the Chinese fakes, the majority of the older tsuba offered for sale on eBay seem to be either in poor condition or of poor quality, or in great condition and quality, but outrageously expensive and/or unaesthetic.

 

Anyone know any good sites for buying tsubas I should be looking at?

 

thanks!!

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm

 

This is a very good site and the bibliography list is well worth perusing.

 

A word of friendly warning about books. There are none that have all the answers and as time goes by attributions and theories are sometimes called into question. Use them as a starting point; a pictorial 'base' so you can see differences between 'schools' and go from there. And remember that hands on is always best so go to the shows whenever possible.

 

Here's an example of tsuchime ji utilized as background for highest caliber work:

 

[attachment=0]scan0004.jpg[/attachment]

 

Neat! Is that tsuba one from your collection? It's interesting how the hammerwork is much closer and even than the ones I've been looking at - much more controlled.

 

I have a tsuba with some good carving on it as well as tsuchimeji - the motif is "Dragon in Sand". The tsuchimeji is much rougher than on the one you posted. It's late for me now, but I'll get some pics and post them tomorrow.

 

There's a pic in "Lethal Elegance" of an iris on a hammered background where the hammerwork suggests a landscape shrouded in rain or mist. It's so gorgeous I cried the first time I saw it. I'm a man and I'm not afraid to own up to that. I'd give my eyeteeth just to be able to see it in person. (Well, it's in Boston. Maybe I'll get up there one day.)

 

You mention "shows". There are "shows" for tsubas???? Where do I find out about these "shows" of which you speak?

 

Thanks!

 

peace.

[Ford Hallam]

Chuck,

 

the Iris tsuba you mention ( in the MFA) is actually a masterpiece by Kano Natsuo, possibly one of the finest artists in this tradition. That ground work isn't hammered at all but is very skilfully and sensitively carved. It's also very small, I was shocked when I finally got to see it in the flesh but I agree with you, it is sublime.

 

regards,

 

Ford

[Steve Waszak]

Hi Chuck,

 

There is a fairly major sword show in San Francisco in mid-August. If you want an opportunity to see AND handle a variety of tsuba, ranging from mediocre to excellent, attending this show is pretty close to a must. Arguably, it is the best of the year in the U.S...

 

The other thing I would stress is to put your dollars toward more books before you indulge in the acquisition of pieces. The tsuba Pete posted the photo of is by a tsubako named Kaneiye. He is considered one of the greatest of all tsuba artists, a superstar's superstar. Without spending significant time immersing yourself in reading some of the "essential" tsuba texts, as well as in handling at least a few hundred pieces, it is really quite difficult to see and grasp why, exactly, this Kaneiye is a masterpiece, rather than merely "good." Likewise, it can be hard to recognize why another, would-be similar piece, is better fit for a doorstop. I would recommend getting the two Sasano texts on sukashi tsuba (1972 and 1994 publication dates), as well as Tsuba: An Aesthetic Study by Torigoye and Haynes. For sheer reading about tsuba, especially qualitative considerations, these are three of the better texts out there (assuming you don't read Japanese). The second of the two Sasano books, too, has outstanding photographs of some great tsuba. Other books may have good factual information, useful for reference, and/or excellent illustrations only. In my experience, however, it was important to gain an understanding of what made a high-quality tsuba so good, and THEN to examine photos or pieces to look for those characteristics. So the actual textual content was paramount for me...

 

Finally, towards the bottom of Dr. Stein's site, there is a section which provides links to commercial sites. Some of these offer some pretty excellent tsuba. I can't emphasize enough, however, the importance of reading and studying before you buy. These books aren't always cheap, but it's money far better spent than on a tsuba of the same price. Do this, and attend the S.F. show if you can. If you're serious about diving in, this is the Way... lol. ;o)

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[pcfarrar]

I discovered that I like the "rustic" tsubas an awful lot. I love the rough textured tsuchiemji finish. I have two now, and when I'm reading I'll turn them over and over in my hands. The texture and weight seems to calm me.

 

What about the Jakushi school? Somewhat more affordable than Kaneiye work, not tsuchimeji but similar effect.

 

Here's a decent example:

 

http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/2009/0910_6009syousai.htm

[Ford Hallam]

That is a nice example, Peter. Well spotted ...and not a bad price methinks...

[chuck]

Ok, been away for awhile. Thanks for all the info!

 

Question on shows - it's pretty much impossible for me to get out to San Francisco. Do they ever have shows in NYC or Philly? These are the two closest major cities to where I am.

 

I saw a piece on eBay that exemplifies the heavily hammered style I'm talking about, and I managed to pick it up fairly cheaply.

 

 

 

I just really love the texture and weight of this tsuba! It was cheap as far as tsuba go; so I'm pretty sure it's nothing particularily special, but I do like it alot. If anyone can tell me anything about it, I'd appreciate it.

 

And here's the "Dragon in Sand" tsuba I mentioned before. It's over 5 mm thick. Big and heavy.

 

 

 

Again, all comments are appreciated.

 

Thanks!!

 

peace.

[Soshin]

Ok, been away for awhile. Thanks for all the info!

 

Question on shows - it's pretty much impossible for me to get out to San Francisco. Do they ever have shows in NYC or Philly? These are the two closest major cities to where I am.

 

I saw a piece on eBay that exemplifies the heavily hammered style I'm talking about, and I managed to pick it up fairly cheaply.

 

I just really love the texture and weight of this tsuba! It was cheap as far as tsuba go; so I'm pretty sure it's nothing particularily special

The mokko-garu shape is very common in the Tembo school and the two examples both display this type of shape. I also have two Tembo school tsuba(s) with this type of shape. One is on a NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho level Shinto Katana I own and the other I purchased for my tosogu collection. Thank you so much for sharing the additional photographs.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David S. (Soshin)

[Andi B.]

Please forgive my newbie question:

How was the surface intended to be by the smith e.g. on a tsuba like this:

 

 

Many tuba look "old" now but how have the looked like when they were new?

Which of the surface details were done intentionally by the craftsmen and what are simple signs of age or usage?

[Soshin]

Please forgive my newbie question:

How was the surface intended to be by the smith e.g. on a tsuba like this:

Many tuba look "old" now but how have the looked like when they were new?

Which of the surface details were done intentionally by the craftsmen and what are simple signs of age or usage?

This can be judge by just looking at as many tsuba as you can and talking with knowledgeable people with the tsuba(s) in hand. Not all tsuba have a "rustic" look that is intentional. Sometimes it can be the result of age, use, and mistreatment. The tsuchimeji affect of the surface of tsuba is an intentional artistic affect that is fairly common. I could post some photographs of mistreated tsuba that came from the bargain bin that is my collection but don't want to incur the wrath of the tosogu fashion police anymore.

 

 

Yours truly,

David S. (Soshin)