What are these items?

[DTM72]

A seller on eBay has posted these items as "Teppo-Hinawa-ju tool set, Edo period antique, Japanese matchlock soldier set."

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266165819954?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l1120&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=569962a81189403e8bb058d941d08b82&bu=43192445835&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1~1&crd=20230310075055&segname=11021

 

Can anyone identify these items?

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, but they have all been lumped together into one lot from different ends of the spectrum.

 

The leather stuff is probably from a hunter in the hills. The tools include a flint bag and striker and waterproof tinder holder for lighting fires. Rough and rugged, they could have been used by anyone outside mainstream society, in Japan or on the continent.

 

The Muné-ate and band would be for when shooting as a martial art. Some say it’s a headband, others that it goes around the waist at the top of the hakama.

 

Two different sets is probably closer to the truth, but the seller may not know that.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

PS For a collector of anything teppō-related though, it’s all interesting stuff.

[Peter Bleed]

I agree with Piers. BUT I sort of suspicion that not all of this is "Japanese." Elsewhere in East Asia and colonial Japan?? How would we check?
Peter

[watsonmil]

Peter,

    If I'm not mistaken,  the powder flasks ( leather ) are Arabic in origin.  Certainly not Japanese.  

[Bugyotsuji]

I have to agree with Peter and Ron. Actually I have seen similar powder flasks on sale in Japan, but I had the same uneasy feeling back then, i.e. when and why were they brought to Japan? Arabic is just as possible as Korean or Tibetan, but heavy leather usage suggests a non-Buddhist origin. Certainly not 'Japanese' in feeling, but I've seen plenty of crude stuff used by hunters up in them thar hills!

[Dave R]

I have seen a few of these leather sets from Afghanistan, and owned one of them some years ago. Afghanistan is very mixed ethnically, think of it as a pyramid, and each side heavily influenced by the nearest neighbour, China, India, Iran and "Kazakhstan". The inverted comma is because I really don't know a better term for this area of northern Asian states, officially Russian but culturally not. 

[MarcoUdin]

If you're in the Facebook Nihonto group you can message the guy. I believe his name is Raymond Yan, I'm sure he would be up front about what he thinks they are(or are not). Just a thought.

[Peter Bleed]

A good discussion. Thank you all.

In fact, I was kind of wondering about Korea as a point of origin. We certainly know that Japanese firearms were used in Korea. And there would have been several ways that Korean materials might have arrived in early modern Japan.

Peter

[Bugyotsuji]

5 hours ago, MarcoUdin said:

If you're in the Facebook Nihonto group you can message the guy. I believe his name is Raymond Yan, I'm sure he would be up front about what he thinks they are(or are not). Just a thought.

Marco his/her description above says 'Japanese'.

[MarcoUdin]

18 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Marco his/her description above says 'Japanese'.

Right you are, I didn't even bother to open the ebay link since the photos were posted. I just recognized the seller by the room setup.

[DTM72]

On 3/11/2023 at 2:24 PM, Peter Bleed said:

A good discussion. Thank you all.

In fact, I was kind of wondering about Korea as a point of origin. We certainly know that Japanese firearms were used in Korea. And there would have been several ways that Korean materials might have arrived in early modern Japan.

Peter

 

I actually had a table right behind Ray in Vegas earlier this year. A really decent guy and as honest seller. He has a contact in Japan that sends items to him. I didn't ask directly on this lot, but some things are listed as described from his supplier.