GARY WORTHAM Posted July 23, 2009 Report Posted July 23, 2009 Ok, here's one of my tough ones !!! 69cm blade length, 1.7cm sori, tori-zori, tachi mei, mokume with itame, ko-choji madare hamon, boshi - kaen [ hakikake ], late Kamakura or early Nanbokucho, hi - marudome, chu - kissaki, and kiri yasurime. Comes with a great piece of it's history of WWII Japan acquisition. Would appreciate any and all ideas of age, signature, smith, historical data, etc. I know how difficult it is for thoughts holding the actual blade, so this is a long shot; yet the mass winds of wisdom has greatly impressed me more times than I could count over the years. Gary Wortham Quote
Jacques Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 Hi, Pictures of the blade please. Over all, kissaki, close-up of the kitae and hamon. In all case it is not the GO. Quote
Gunome Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 Hello, At present, we only could say this sword was suriage, and with 4 mekugi ana which suppose it had 4 differents mounts, at least waiting for new pictures :D Sebastien Quote
Jean Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 In fact Gary, what are you requesting : a kantei? yamato senjuin, is it your kantei or is it issue from some papers? From Sho shin site YOSHIHIRO KO-EI 1342 YAMATO 742 YOS 143 JO-JO 600 SENJUIN YOSHIHIRO KO-EI to BUN-WA: Possibly son or pupil of GO YOSHIHIRO. Made RYOBA TANTO. MASAME HADA. Used both "Shed" and "Bow" forms of HIRO. MEI: YOSHIHIRO MINAMOTO YOSHIHIRO FUJIWARA YOSHIHIRO OITE WASHU TAKADA SAKU YAMATO-no-KUNI SENJUIN JU MINAMOTO YOSHIHIRO Quote
DirkO Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 Hello, At present, we only could say this sword was suriage, and with 4 mekugi ana which suppose it had 4 differents mounts, at least waiting for new pictures :D Sebastien Don't forget the one that's partially filled again and I even think the bottom one was redrilled at one point, so that makes 6 Quote
Gunome Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 I didn't noticed it. It seems you are true Quote
george trotter Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 As Jean says, what are you asking? Do you know already what/who it is? Are you asking for a kantei or checking what your papers say? Without pictures it is almost impossible to comment beyond the signature....and to me, it also looks like it could be Yoshikane. Let us know what you want, Regards, george Trotter. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 It looks like the nakago around the mei has been partially cleaned. If this is the case and you know who did it, tell him never to do that again. Grey Quote
Gunome Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 probably to allow an easier reading of the mei :? Quote
GARY WORTHAM Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Posted July 24, 2009 Thanks for all the great ideas, comments, and advice so far. Jean, nice call on the son or pupil of Go Yoshihiro, and 1342. Thanks exactly what I felt it could be. I have never had it papered, just not found the right time, but will someday after I retire. The nakago was mentioned as cleaned, by another. Well, as a long time collector and student of the study of Japanese swords and fittings, I can assure you it was not touched by me, and the collector I got it from, years back, was of the same respectful nature. Maybe the lighting threw you off on the appearance. As for more pictures, my skill is developing with the photography, and has just reached the fittings level. As anyone with blade photo experience can say, that is an art within itself, to capture the blade, boshi, and the activity within them. Yet, this is my new personal challenge, and if I am successful, I will add photos. Thanks !! Gary Wortham Quote
GARY WORTHAM Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Posted July 24, 2009 Ok, I tried a few close ups and 3 were meager at best; 1 = boshi, 2 = lower blade activity, and 3 = overall blade. 2009 goal = photography closeups of blades !!!! Gary Wortham Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 Hello Gary, The following measurements please; nagasa, motohaba, sakihaba, motokasane, sakikasane? Quote
GARY WORTHAM Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Posted July 24, 2009 Greetings; to Franco & Jacques = answers to questions; Bohi - both sides Nagasa - 69cm Motohaba - 27mm Motokasane - 7mm Sakihaba - 20mm Sakikasane - 4mm Let me know how this data fits into your current line of thinking. I always ask my sword study teacher, over the years; What do you see ??? Gary Wortham Quote
Jacques Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 Hi, Some thing seems strange, if this blade is suriage and probably machi-okuri we should see the groove on the nakago, but i can't see it. Quote
GARY WORTHAM Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Posted July 24, 2009 Hi Jacques, the bohi ends in the tang, 12mm above the top mekugi ana. Enlighten me as to your thoughts that this portrays. Gary Wortham Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 Let me know how this data fits into your current line of thinking. Gary Wortham Hi, the measurements lend themselves as being acceptable for an earlier sword. Of course just to be a bit and throw a curveball, top Shinshinto artists produced exact proportioned copies too. The point being that the proof is in the sword, so, what do you see in the Jigane, is the boshi Kaen or Hakikake or both, describe the nie and nioi? Brighter better pics of the nakago? Is the kassane of the nakago the same or wider at any point before the munemachi? Quote
Grey Doffin Posted July 24, 2009 Report Posted July 24, 2009 That would make the hi (grooves) ato-bori: carved later. In this case the hi post date the shortening. Grey Quote
GARY WORTHAM Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Posted July 25, 2009 Well, it seems that the more you work at it, the more difficult the journey becomes. That's the greatness of this line of education and study. Additional photo of tang - a little better + bohi more visual & signature of a more normal look. measurements of tang width: at bohi - 25mm 2nd mekugi ana: 24mm 3rd: 23mm 4th = bottom: 21mm tip of tang - nakagojiri: 19mm Description question of boshi: looks to be a strong hakikae but could pass for kaen. jigane activity: hamon looks to be ko-nie, with a lot of activity within it. Reflective nature of metal and my camera are not one with nature, my new challenge. Gary Wortham Quote
Jean Posted July 25, 2009 Report Posted July 25, 2009 Gary, there are always exceptions, but Yoshihiro was known as a tanto maker and for its masame hada, I doubt it is this one ... Quote
Jacques Posted July 25, 2009 Report Posted July 25, 2009 Hi, According my books nothing can be clearly established about Senjuin Yoshihiro even his work. the only thing we can be certain is the rarity of his works. Still according my books all blade with niji-mei should be from late Kamakura period, those with a naga-mei are made in Nanbokucho period. Imho the sugata of your blade does not match late kamakura ones. Quote
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