A Concerning Crude Nakago

[Bruce Pennington]

Well, that sort of says this was a real WWII era, at least, tsuba pattern!

[Kiipu]

@Conway S I ran across another one in a GBF post back in 2014.

Need help with a Japanese Sword., Post #9

[Conway S]

Thomas, 

 

Very interesting find. There are quite a few similarities. Too bad there were no pictures of the blade or nakago. I will keep looking for other examples like these. I saw in the referenced post that late war swords were sometimes machine made. I wonder if this would explain the lack of a temper line on the sword I posted... 

 

Conway

[Conway S]

[Conway S]

I am still not convinced this was not made in a modern day Chinese workshop right next to the Type 95s...

 

Conway

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Conway S said:

I am still not convinced this was not made in a modern day Chinese workshop right next to the Type 95s...

 

Conway

 

 

One thing about fakes is that they copy something real (Ok, there are exceptions).  So we could be seeing a Chinese copy of a real WWII civil gunto tsuba.

 

For the record, I recently found another while searching for stamped blades.  For the life of me, I don't remember which file it went into.  If I find it, I'll post it.

[mdiddy]

At worst it is a total post-war reproduction. At best it is a post-war reproduction that someone tarted up with a few real parts (i.e. the fuchi, and maybe only the fuchi). The nakago is clearly not that of a Japanese made sword. Besides the crude manufacturing and lack of care taken in finishing, the placement of the mekugi-ana is way far off where it would need to be to make it a functional weapon. 

[Conway S]

Found this sword previously for sale on IMA. 

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-wwii-Japanese-army-officer-katana-samurai-sword-late-war?variant=26171058309

 

And Matt, the poor placement of the tang hole was the first thing I noticed when I had the sword in hand. I learned an important lesson and won't roll the dice again on any possible crude late war/island swords. 

 

Conway

[mdiddy]

44 minutes ago, Conway S said:

Found this sword previously for sale on IMA. 

 

Thanks for sharing. I've never dealt with IMA. 

 

I know there are a lot of solid dealers with years on years of experience that can be contacted through the message board. I highly recommend connecting with one. They can be very helpful.

[Bruce Pennington]

10 hours ago, Conway S said:

Found this sword previously for sale on IMA. 

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-wwii-Japanese-army-officer-katana-samurai-sword-late-war?variant=26171058309

That's an interesting one, Conway, as the blade still has cosmoline on it.  

[John C]

I am sure the criticism will follow...but what if some of these types of swords were not meant to be truly functional weapons? A corporal gets a field promotion to NCO and just needs a symbol of authority to lead his men? Though I suppose he could pick up a sword off of the battlefield, maybe instead he buys the cheapest thing he can find.

John C.

[paulb]

Hi John,

not specifically aimed at your post but I have generally found the more complex the explanation I make up to make what I am looking at fit my ideas then the less likely it is to be true. 

[John C]

17 minutes ago, paulb said:

I have generally found the more complex the explanation

No worries. I knew I was opening myself up. I too believe in Occam's Razor, however. That's why "symbol of authority" rather than "functional weapon." Japanese version of the swagger stick.

John C.

 

[Brian]

The sword was far more than just a symbol to the Japanese though. It was a tradition and something revered even back then. Not sure I can see someone choosing something based purely on looks and not function.

[John C]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

Not sure I can see someone choosing something based purely on looks and not function.

I tend to agree that a weapon needs to be functional; even if there is some additional symbolic reason to carry it.

My purpose in throwing this stuff out there is just to present an alternative. Chinese fake; late war; maybe there is another reason. To prove a theory we have to control for other variables and reject the null hypothesis. I'm just chucking in the control variables so they can be at least considered...then eliminated!

John C.