Wakizashi, possibly Gimei ?

[FrenchBreadPrime]

I won a Wakizashi at an auction a few days ago. Seller was Daimyou54eb and it was on Catawiki of all places. I trust Daimyou as a seller because of their (and their father's) experience with armors though I know blades aren't their specialty, and if they're selling overseas it means those blades aren't usually worth it to a Japanese market. I still wanted to bid on a Wakizashi as it seems like an alright one to me -though I am a novice- and ended up getting it under my budget (under 500 bucks).

I really like the unflattering picture offered by Daimyou, and since it's from Japan and registered there's no doubt flying whether it's nihonto or not. 

The thing I'm confused about though is that it's signed 武州下原住照重, Bushu Shitahara Ju Terushige, and three Terushige used that signature, and while they appear to have good Fujishiro ratings, it doesn't seem like a name that'd get faked on a signature. I know Daimyou usually sells Mumei or Gimei, but is there a chance for the mei to be real ? 

Full Length 85.4 cm

Nagasa 54.2 cm

Sori 1.6 cm

Motohaba 2.8 cm

 

Weighs about 950 grams, said to be late Muromachi but I take the dating with a pinch of salt when it's from a seller. I can see a Hamon and I know Daimyou's products look better in hand than in pictures so I'm expecting it to be more visible once in hand.

I've seen a few rusty spots and notches alond the blade but nothing that appears too dire to me, the ha-machi is still visible but the mune-machi seems really small, could this be a tired blade ?

I like the Koshirae, it has seen better days and I feel like the broken tip of the saya is where a Kojiri could have been. The Tsuba feels old but maybe I'm just being swayed by the rust.

Feel free to tell me if I have been spewing bullshit as I'm still a newbie when it comes to blade.

 

Tidiane.

 

[Rivkin]

Can be real shitahara and they can be quite attractive.  The forging looks good and the signature I don't think has anything that just screams fake. Condition is the issue and restoring the blade might be not economically viable.

[FrenchBreadPrime]

30 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

Can be real shitahara and they can be quite attractive.  The forging looks good and the signature I don't think has anything that just screams fake. Condition is the issue and restoring the blade might be not economically viable.

Thanks for your answer ! I sure hope it's the case.

Indeed, with the blade's length, restoration wouldn't be economically viable, or in the best case scenario it'd be a breakeven. Still, I might save up for it for later. As for the general condition, I'm unsure about what to expect. Went in expecting the worst but I am optimistic. 

[ROKUJURO]

Tidiane,

the SAYA is not broken but just the KOJIRI is missing. As the rest of the TOSOGU is quite nice (especially the TSUKA is also in good condition), it might be difficult to find the fitting SENTOKU KOJIRI easily. 

[FrenchBreadPrime]

26 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Tidiane,

the SAYA is not broken but just the KOJIRI is missing. As the rest of the TOSOGU is quite nice (especially the TSUKA is also in good condition), it might be difficult to find the fitting SENTOKU KOJIRI easily. 

Thanks for your reply, Jean !

That's what I was suspecting for the Kojiri, it felt too clean to be a broken saya. I'll try to take measurements and stay on the lookout for antique kojiri once I get it. Luckily I shouldn't be ruined if it's sentoku fittings.

Would it be advisable to coat the Tsuka in oil (as well as the blade) for a few weeks to get rid of the red rust ?

[ROKUJURO]

Tidiane,

SENTOKU fittings - if of good quality - are often not cheap, so watch the market and don't forget to inquire here at the many good dealers on NMB! We also have a Fuchi/Kashira and MENUKI Orphanage where you might want to look.

Concerning oiling the blade (certainly not the TSUKA (= handle, but you probably meant NAKAGO), you have to imagine that oil may prevent further rusting in case it is applied in a layer of sufficient thickness to keep oxygen away from the metal. Many so-called oils are not able to do that, so you need a very special oil with the fitting properties. Most 'oils' are not oils in the chemical sense but hydrocarbons, and often lack the necessary "wetting ability", flow properties, and film stability which are necessary for a true protection.

Oil application can sometimes help to get rid of loose red rust (Fe2O3) but it cannot reverse the corrosion process.  Usually the NAKAGO is not treated with oil unless there is red rust.

On the other hand, you absolutely don't want any oil in your SAYA, so you cannot 'soak' your blade in oil and re-sheath it.  What remains as protective measure is repeatedly wiping the blade with an oily household paper (Kleenex de préférance) once a week while avoiding to leave oil on the blade when you put it back in the SAYA.
By the way, I use camellia (TSUBAKI) oil which has low viscosity and oxidizes very slowly.

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

good value at 5 hundro

[FrenchBreadPrime]

3 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Tidiane,

SENTOKU fittings - if of good quality - are often not cheap, so watch the market and don't forget to inquire here at the many good dealers on NMB! We also have a Fuchi/Kashira and MENUKI Orphanage where you might want to look.

Concerning oiling the blade (certainly not the TSUKA (= handle, but you probably meant NAKAGO), you have to imagine that oil may prevent further rusting in case it is applied in a layer of sufficient thickness to keep oxygen away from the metal. Many so-called oils are not able to do that, so you need a very special oil with the fitting properties. Most 'oils' are not oils in the chemical sense but hydrocarbons, and often lack the necessary "wetting ability", flow properties, and film stability which are necessary for a true protection.

Oil application can sometimes help to get rid of loose red rust (Fe2O3) but it cannot reverse the corrosion process.  Usually the NAKAGO is not treated with oil unless there is red rust.

On the other hand, you absolutely don't want any oil in your SAYA, so you cannot 'soak' your blade in oil and re-sheath it.  What remains as protective measure is repeatedly wiping the blade with an oily household paper (Kleenex de préférance) once a week while avoiding to leave oil on the blade when you put it back in the SAYA.
By the way, I use camellia (TSUBAKI) oil which has low viscosity and oxidizes very slowly.

Yeah, I will keep an eye on the forum. I'm just expecting them to be less expensive than say Shaduko fittings.

I did mean the Tsuka, since I feel it's very rusty on the picture, though I'm also uneasy if the Nakago happens to have red rust and I feel like it might be the case from the pictures but it might also just be due to the lighting.

I'll try to see if I can get my hands on Japanese oil, otherwise I have Ballistol that I've been using on my armors (On a Greek bronze bell cuirass mostly) that worked well but I'd rather be careful with using that kind of oil with a Nihonto.

Camellia oil doesn't seem that expensive either. Thank you for the informations !

 

1 hour ago, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

good value at 5 hundro

It feels like one of the few not-trash pieces that Daimyou occasionally sells. Fingers crossed for it not having a fatal flaw.

[ROKUJURO]

Tidiane,

as the TSUKA (= handle) seems to have no iron on it, I don't see the danger of rust. Instead, your TSUBA might profit from a careful treatment with a soft brass brush and some oil treatment afterwards.

I would not use Ballistol on anything Japanese. The price of suited oil for the preservation is very low, whatever you use. You don't want to drown the items! 

[FrenchBreadPrime]

1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

Tidiane,

as the TSUKA (= handle) seems to have no iron on it, I don't see the danger of rust. Instead, your TSUBA might profit from a careful treatment with a soft brass brush and some oil treatment afterwards.

I would not use Ballistol on anything Japanese. The price of suited oil for the preservation is very low, whatever you use. You don't want to drown the items! 

Oh I'm a damn idiot. I mistake tsuba and tsuka a lot, I'm very sorry hahaha ! 

I'll get my hands on a better oil, I was nearly out of stock anyways and my armors will probably appreciate a better suited oil too ! 

Thank you for your answers !

[ROKUJURO]

Tidiane,

nothing broken, the main thing is that we understand each other! 
https://www.dictum-gartenwerkzeug.de/de/rostloeser-rostschutz/sinensis-kamelienoel-250-ml-705281?sPartner=gs&gclid=Cj0KCQiAutyfBhCMARIsAMgcRJQu206ro92L-5Unyh5_YKBS5noKb6KyOp9QFw5UJqNZkrC7PBR4DCUaArXqEALw_wcB

[FrenchBreadPrime]

2 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Tidiane,

nothing broken, the main thing is that we understand each other! 
https://www.dictum-gartenwerkzeug.de/de/rostloeser-rostschutz/sinensis-kamelienoel-250-ml-705281?sPartner=gs&gclid=Cj0KCQiAutyfBhCMARIsAMgcRJQu206ro92L-5Unyh5_YKBS5noKb6KyOp9QFw5UJqNZkrC7PBR4DCUaArXqEALw_wcB

Thank you, Jean ! I have ordered a bottle. I will post more pictures of the blade and koshirae once I have it in hand.

[FrenchBreadPrime]

I finally received the blade, it was really quick but I had the time to read a few books during the wait. Here are some more pictures of everything, as expected with Daimyo, the blade looks better in hand than in the auction pics. The Hamon is visible on some of them but not on every pic, it's easier to see in person, it looks like it's gunome midare. It looks like the hada pattern is Itame ? I'm still uncertain as I have a hard time telling if it's really hada or just my eyes toying with me. Tsuba is cleaner than expected too, on the auction pics it looked fully rusted. I really love the saya, too, and the Koshirae really fits tightly which is nice, I expected it to be loose or unfit. 

I applied some camellia oil with a tissue to clean the blade after handling then wiped it. 

Spoiler

 

[ROKUJURO]

Tidiane,

congratulations to a simple but honest WAKIZASHI!

Nothing really fancy, but an o.k. value for what you paid, I think. I am sure a better polish would make the blade a greater pleasure to look at, but that would be serious money. In the long range, in your case I would check the authenticity first and if it was a genuine MEI, you might even consider to have a polish done in Japan (perhaps sponsored by the Loterie nationale de France....).

[FrenchBreadPrime]

1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

Tidiane,

congratulations to a simple but honest WAKIZASHI!

Nothing really fancy, but an o.k. value for what you paid, I think. I am sure a better polish would make the blade a greater pleasure to look at, but that would be serious money. In the long range, in your case I would check the authenticity first and if it was a genuine MEI, you might even consider to have a polish done in Japan (perhaps sponsored by the Loterie nationale de France....).

Thanks ! The blade has indeed a few rusty spots and would benefit from a polish, I'll be keeping it safe until then as I don't think I'll be winning the lottery quite soon haha 

I'd really be interested in knowing if the mei is genuine as Terushige has a good rating by Fujishiro (or at least the three that use that exact same mei) but it doesn't seem like a name that'd attract a huge crowd either.