2 tsubas. Seeking info in motif and more

[GoldenDrachen]

Hello everyone

I have these two tsubas, they came with the swords ( those will post in different section later)

 

I would like to learn more about motifs on both of them.

So far I understand that first one features cross and geese ( right?) And the second one is tomoe.

 

This is it. I will appreciate any input 

 

Regards

Vitaly 

[Spartancrest]

Hi Vitaly. The first image shows mitsudomoe (三つ巴) Three comma shapes with a "worm eaten" rim I think the term is "mushikui". The Tomoe and its variations are often used as a family Mon.

I can't be sure of the waves? on the Ji /hira [plate] some parts at the top look like the sukashi [tomoe] were cut in later? Difficult to tell.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoe  Don't click on the Mitsudomoe (manga) link it is comic book stuff.[no offence]

 

Yes, you are correct with the second image having Karigane [geese]. I like the size and shape differences in the hitsu-ana - one with a similar difference in an old thread https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/33523-tsuba-motifs/  [far right image] but the angles and the way the kogai hitsu bulges out is very unusual on yours.

 

Dan was researching something similar on this thread.

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/43702-help-with-tsuba-school/

 

 

[GoldenDrachen]

Thank you! Sounds very interesting. Especially when you mentioned wormholes. Is there...of course it is some meaning behind it? Can you tell me more? 

[Spartancrest]

As to the meaning of the 'worm eaten' look I can't find much by way of references - plenty of other examples some are still current auctions.

Just as a guess there might be a 'Wabi-sabi' meaning for the "mushikui"?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

 

You can check out this "wormy" faced one - http://world.seiyudo.com/product/tu-020514/   talk about a can of worms, it is not to my taste. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165655277726

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144908123164

http://nihonto.us/KO KINKO SHINCHU TSUBA.htm

This one may be by Nobuie from an old NMB post 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Vitaly,

interesting TSUBA (no plural "s" added!).

The first one appears to be cast, and also could have been damaged by fire. An expert should see this in hand - I could be wrong as I only have a photo to look at. 

The second TSUBA reminds me of OWARI design, but the rim tells another story. It might be a later one with a style mix. This one also should be looked at by an expert to verify a traditional manufacturing process. 

[GoldenDrachen]

8 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Vitaly,

interesting TSUBA (no plural "s" added!).

The first one appears to be cast, and also could have been damaged by fire. An expert should see this in hand - I could be wrong as I only have a photo to look at. 

The second TSUBA reminds me of OWARI design, but the rim tells another story. It might be a later one with a style mix. This one also should be looked at by an expert to verify a traditional manufacturing process. 

Hi Jean!

Thank you!

Only one problem: I don't think there are such experts in Ireland. But maybe be I am wrong, and then  I will be extremely excited to meet one.

So far I can rely only on forums....

 

[ROKUJURO]

Brian will know who to contact in Ireland. And then there is the The Token Society of Great Britain (https://to-ken.uk) who would surely help.
For collectors it is important to have good contacts so they might be able to see good items in hand for learning.

[Spartancrest]

Vitaly you might like to contact -

Kyle Shuttleworth Ph.D.
Token Society of Ireland, Oita Branch NBTHK
kyushukairu

[GoldenDrachen]

2 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Vitaly you might like to contact -

Kyle Shuttleworth Ph.D.
Token Society of Ireland, Oita Branch NBTHK
kyushukairu

Thank you!

I will.

[kyushukairu]

Thank you for the referral Dale. Unfortunately, I’m now permanently located in Japan, otherwise I would be more than happy to meet and discuss any tosogu (or swords).

Vitaly, you should visit our facebook page https://www.facebook.com/tokensocietyireland and speak with Peter McCafftery (located in Belfast) who will reply if you send a message to the page. 

[FlorianB]

Concerning the second one in question I found a similar one here: https://soryu.pl/collections/tsuba/products/kanayama-tsuba-with-nbthk-hozon-tosogu-cross-and-wild-geese

BTW the term "cross" is not necessarily connected with a christian cross.

 

Florian